[meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past

From: Bob Loeffler <bobl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 11:17:51 -0700
Message-ID: <01C4E7043D35451CAB2B2CF93400DD31_at_dell>

HI all,

I think that anyone who asks an IMCA dealer for provenance of a specimen
should expect to get it. IMCA member dealers should be held to a higher
authority if they want to be respected as IMCA members. I would think that
this is part of membership, but I could be wrong (since I'm not a member).
If IMCA member dealers don't give out provenance when asked for it, this
could be considered deception... which looks bad on them and the IMCA. Or
maybe I'm missing out on what the IMCA is about. This is what the first two
sentences on the IMCA home page says:

"The International Meteorite Collectors Association (IMCA Inc.) has one
primary purpose: helping Meteorite Collectors in their search for Authentic
Meteorites for their collections and assisting others in helping to learn
more about meteorites. Whether they are new to the Meteorite World or very
knowledgeable, we want all Collectors to buy/trade with confidence from our
Members, knowing that every item will be exactly what it is represented to
be."

It seems pretty obvious to me. How can we, as buyers, buy WITH CONFIDENCE
when the seller doesn't provide information when requested? If there are
"trade secrets" (e.g. "Exactly where was the specimen found?" when the
finder hasn't disclosed that info), then I understand why a dealer wouldn't
disclose that info. But provenance should not be considered a trade secret.
I'm not trying to single out Shawn. I've never had any dealings with him and
I'm sure he is a good person, so I am just saying all of this "in general"
for all of the meteorite community. If you look at Anne Black's website
(http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm), you will see that she mentions the
provenance for about 95% of her stock.

For those who are worried that a potential buyer will go over a dealer's
head directly to the source, the source person has probably not dealt with
the potential buyer (otherwise they would already be in discussions), and
the source person will not want to have to deal with a new person because
there is a lot of risk when starting up a business rapport with a new buyer.

BTW, I don't know Bill and have never dealt with him either, so I'm not
taking his side because of anything personal.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Regards,

Bob L



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bill kies
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:06 PM
To: photophlow at yahoo.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and
with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past


Shawn,

You are a member of the IMCA. I shouldn't have to do homework when I buy
from you. When I ask for provenance in advance you should cheerfully provide
it. I never questioned the authenticity of your material. I only asked for
assurance prior to making a bid.

Is there really anyone that's going to try and undermine you at the source?
Maybe, but I'm not one to pulverize micro's and I knew of your sources
before you even considered meteorite collecting. I'll look up our private
discussion on ebay if it's still there and let you decide who initiated
rudeness. I believe I have it in a file somewhere.

Seasoned Gratings,
Bill

  
----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 21:36:41 -0800
> From: photophlow at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and
with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
> To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> Bill if you did your homework you would see I posted my provinces in the
past on the LIST, but wait that would matter cause you have no intensions of
buying from me. Lastly, if I was rude to you on eBay, it was because you
were rude to me first. You have a great night Bill and happy holidays to you
Bill :)
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> To: photophlow at yahoo.com
> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 8:49 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and
with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
>
>
> 1633,
>
> I don't recollect ever ganging up against you with anyone here or
elsewhere. I simply asked for provenance concerning one of your ebay
offerings and you were as rude through ebay, without knowing me there, as
you are without knowing me here.
>
> I don't expect you to explain yourself. I cringe at the thought. I only
asked that you explain the origins of your crumbs before I bid. And by the
way, I doubt dropping names will help you join "the best in the bizzness".
>
> Just Plain Bill
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:22:05 -0800
> > From: photophlow at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay,
and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
> > To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com
> > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >
> > Billy Billy Billy Billllllllllllllllllllllll
> >
> > Your too much. your going to do this again..... Its funny, not to long
ago you did this with some other member on the List and tried to gang up on
me. Bill, you know this and I know this, you have never bought a meteorite
from me and you will never will. I have been contacted by people in the past
and the only reason why they want to know where I got the meteorite from, is
so they can go to that source and never buy from me. Any WHOS, I buy from
the best, ask Anne, Blain, Matt Morgan, Rob Elliot, EV, Mr Blood to name a
few :) and I have done trades with the best in the bizzness. I do not need
to explain myself to you BILL and I have already explained many times where
I get my meteorites from on the List.
> >
> > Shawn Alan
> > IMCA 1633
> > eBay store
> > http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com>
> > To: photophlow at yahoo.com
> > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 7:57 PM
> > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay,
and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
> >
> >
> > Shawn,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification. I feel safe now. On another note, I'd like
to know why you refuse provenance until after your sales. I'd like to know
the source before I bid. Not too much to ask I think. You explained that
prospective buyers might try to circumvent you if they know your source but
I don't think that applies to some of your micro offerings as they are so
incredibly rare. Please explain further.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
Received on Sat 08 Dec 2012 01:17:51 PM PST