[meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past
From: bill kies <parkforestmet_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:05:50 -0600 Message-ID: <BAY173-W214BDDEA6696EC46B5F13EA24B0_at_phx.gbl> Shawn, You are a member of the IMCA. I shouldn't have to do homework when I buy from you. When I ask for provenance in advance you should cheerfully provide it. I never questioned the authenticity of your material. I only asked for assurance prior to making a bid. Is there really anyone that's going to try and undermine you at the source? Maybe, but I'm not one to pulverize micro's and I knew of your sources before you even considered meteorite collecting. I'll look up our private discussion on ebay if it's still there and let you decide who initiated rudeness. I believe I have it in a file somewhere. Seasoned Gratings, Bill ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 21:36:41 -0800 > From: photophlow at yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Bill if you did your homework you would see I posted my provinces in the past on the LIST, but wait that would matter cause you have no intensions of buying from me. Lastly, if I was rude to you on eBay, it was because you were rude to me first. You have a great night Bill and happy holidays to you Bill :) > > Shawn Alan > IMCA 1633 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> > To: photophlow at yahoo.com > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 8:49 PM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > 1633, > > I don't recollect ever ganging up against you with anyone here or elsewhere. I simply asked for provenance concerning one of your ebay offerings and you were as rude through ebay, without knowing me there, as you are without knowing me here. > > I don't expect you to explain yourself. I cringe at the thought. I only asked that you explain the origins of your crumbs before I bid. And by the way, I doubt dropping names will help you join "the best in the bizzness". > > Just Plain Bill > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:22:05 -0800 > > From: photophlow at yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com > > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > Billy Billy Billy Billllllllllllllllllllllll > > > > Your too much. your going to do this again..... Its funny, not to long ago you did this with some other member on the List and tried to gang up on me. Bill, you know this and I know this, you have never bought a meteorite from me and you will never will. I have been contacted by people in the past and the only reason why they want to know where I got the meteorite from, is so they can go to that source and never buy from me. Any WHOS, I buy from the best, ask Anne, Blain, Matt Morgan, Rob Elliot, EV, Mr Blood to name a few :) and I have done trades with the best in the bizzness. I do not need to explain myself to you BILL and I have already explained many times where I get my meteorites from on the List. > > > > Shawn Alan > > IMCA 1633 > > eBay store > > http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bill kies <parkforestmet at hotmail.com> > > To: photophlow at yahoo.com > > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 7:57 PM > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > > > > Shawn, > > > > Thanks for the clarification. I feel safe now. On another note, I'd like to know why you refuse provenance until after your sales. I'd like to know the source before I bid. Not too much to ask I think. You explained that prospective buyers might try to circumvent you if they know your source but I don't think that applies to some of your micro offerings as they are so incredibly rare. Please explain further. > > > > Thanks, > > Bill > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 19:31:41 -0800 > > > From: photophlow at yahoo.com > > > To: meteoritemike at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past > > > > > > Hello Mike G and Listers > > > > > > Awhile back I had also posted something on the List about galeriacores on ebay about questionable meteorites he has sold > > > and also his past in trying to sell fake meteorites. > > > > > > The first link is a 7g moon meteorite with a starting bid at $550.00 in July 2011 trying to > > > be sold by galeriacores > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806608402.pdf > > > The second link is another moon meteorite with a starting price for $650 in July 2011 > > > with no reserve at 5 grams > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf > > > > > > The third link is another lunar meteorite posted to ebay on the same day as the others > > > with a starting price of $455 at 5 grams. Right now this is a total of 17g of Lunar meteorites > > > being sold for $1600, that's an heard of. > > > > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807099130.pdf > > > > > > Here are a couple more links of other items galeriacores was trying to sell on eBay > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220807514879.pdf > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220809004478.pdf > > > > > > In addition to those post I was also informed by another List member about galeriacores > > > buying and meteorite wrong for around $200 on eBay and then turning around > > > and trying to sell it for $5000 on ebay. The links are down below... > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/160596972103.pdf > > > http://meteorite-identification.com/ebay/SSeller/galeriacores/220806740213.pdf > > > > > > I had confronted galeriacores about the lunars he was trying to pass off as real > > > meteorites and all he could say was those we hard times. I see a few of the meteorites > > > he has sold are questionable and I have bought a meteorite from him which is very questionable > > > and need to have tests done. I can say this, I suggested to him to go on > > > meteorite central to clean his name when I called him out and he said we wasn't going to. > > > > > > I have noticed he has real meteorites for sale, the cheap ones, and then he has super rare > > > and expensive ones that look to good to be true. From the past auctions he has done in trying to > > > pass of fake rocks as real meteorites, I would say it safe to assume that there might > > > be meteorite hes selling that are questionable today, and I hope that the people > > > that have boughten meteorites from him keep them far away from the meteorite community > > > until this matter is dealt with. > > > > > > Again, I am going by what I have seen in the past, what I got from him, and the fake lunar he was try to sell > > > off as real meteorites. > > > > > > Shawn Alan > > > IMCA 1633 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> > > > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> > > > Cc: > > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 3:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller. > > > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > > > I received many emails privately from concerned collectors. I think > > > it is time to reveal what I know and to let the collector public > > > decide what to do with their specimens that may be impacted by this. > > > > > > First, I do not have currently, or in the past, any material from this > > > person. So I have no personal dog in this fight. My motivation is > > > concern for the integrity of collections and the collector market in > > > general. One bad apple can make the entire bushel look bad. > > > > > > As of now, I am acting primarily on my own in revealing this. A > > > couple of other dealers are aware of the issue, but I will not speak > > > for them or name drop. They can chime in later if they feel the need. > > > Everyone agrees that this person is engaged in some questionable > > > behavior that calls into question the authenticity of some of the > > > specimens they sell. > > > > > > If this person reads this, and they want to respond, please do so. If > > > we have it wrong, and there is just some misunderstanding at work > > > here, then I hope the person will speak up on the record and clear > > > this up. No hard feelings involved - we just want to make sure a > > > given meteorite is what it is said to be. > > > > > > eBay seller - galeriacores > > > > > > website - meteoritefragments.com > > > > > > I do not know if the two above entities are connected or not. I > > > stumbled across the second one (meteoritefragments.com) and while > > > discussing it with another dealer, the issue of the first was raised > > > (galeriacores). > > > > > > Galeriacores has been questioned on this List in the past - a search > > > of the recent archives will show the discussion. It was a month or > > > two ago. There was also a second issue with this person regarding > > > mixed up NWA numbers and types - auction descriptions that did not > > > match the data in the Met Bull. There were also a questionable > > > specimen of Sutter's Mill that was mentioned. > > > > > > There is a lot of smoke and red flags here. If you have bought > > > something obvious or distinctive from this person, you probably have > > > nothing to worry about - an unclassified NWA sold for aesthetics or > > > certain easily-identifiable irons. But, if you bought a small crumb > > > or small specimen of something really rare, then I would be worried. > > > This person also sells a lot of material that appears to be legitimate > > > - which would lend cover and credibility to their other sales. So > > > trying to figure out what is what may prove difficult. But usually > > > where there is enough smoke, there is fire. > > > > > > Looking through Galeriacore's feedback profile, there are no negatives > > > or ticked off customers. Everyone seems happy with their purchases. > > > But, given the concerns raised here and previously, I would be taking > > > a hard second look at certain specimens bought from this seller. I > > > see some List members amongst this person's satisfied customers, and I > > > see a few collectors who I have sold meteorites to. These people > > > should take a look at their purchases and make sure everything is in > > > order. > > > > > > The meteoritefragments.com website has taken (stolen) images of > > > meteorites from myself and at least one other well-known dealer. At > > > least one of the rare specimens listed on that website for sale is > > > currently owned by another collector - the photo is stolen and the > > > specimen is actually owned by someone else who was not aware of the > > > website. Also, several photos are entirely wrong and not the right > > > type of meteorite. The owner of this website uses a private domain > > > services that cloaks the identity of the domain registrant, so there > > > is a generic name, but no actual contact info. There is a name given > > > on the website and an email address. I tried contacting the person > > > and received no reply. > > > > > > That is all. I am sorry this took up so much time, space, and energy. > > > Sometimes there is a dark side to meteorite collecting, and dubious > > > sellers are part of that problem. Those collectors out there looking > > > for genuine and authentic specimens should be aware of frauds and > > > likely-frauds. Since I have not personally bought anything from this > > > person, I cannot say for certain that I was burned. But there are > > > some troublesome questions surrounding some of this person's > > > specimens, and these questions need to be answered - here on this > > > list, or in private with the collectors involved. > > > > > > If Galeriacores or meteoritefragments.com want to chime in and > > > straighten things out for the record, then please do. If I am wrong, > > > I will sincerely apologize. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> > > > > To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> > > > > Cc: > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 8:19 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and > > > > with a certain seller. > > > > > > > > Hi List and Concerned Collectors, > > > > > > > > Do not panic. I do not think this is an epic-level scammer of the > > > > Madoff level. But I want to make sure we have all of our ducks lined > > > > up into neat row before we call someone out in public. > > > > > > > > I will say this - it is someone who has been caused concerns to be > > > > raised in the recent past on the List. It started some discussion, > > > > but then the chatter died off. The person continued doing what they > > > > were doing and may be connected to another shady endeavour recently > > > > discovered. I know a couple of other collectors and dealers who have > > > > dealt with this person, and we want to share data and see if it really > > > > is as bad as it looks. > > > > > > > > It may be tomorrow before I have learned anything new or may have > > > > something public to say. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/6/12, MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi List, > > > >> > > > >> As a collector first, dealer second, and passionate meteorite nut > > > >> third, I share the common sentiment that the integrity of the world's > > > >> meteorite collections is a top priority for all of us. Whether it is > > > >> a large museum like the Smithsonian or a small micromount collector, > > > >> it is important that any and all specimens in that collection are > > > >> genuine and labeled correctly. It is a shame and a disservice to the > > > >> entire meteorite community (scientific and layperson) when a dealer > > > >> knowingly misrepresents specimens as something they are not. Whether > > > >> it's a big whole stone the size of a football, or a tiny Bessey Speck, > > > >> it is of the utmost importance that the specimen be genuine. If it's > > > >> billed, sold, and labeled as Tissint Martian, then it damn well better > > > >> be Tissint Martian. I won't nitpick the weight 1mg or the other, > > > >> because scales vary. But the material better be what it is sold to > > > >> be. > > > >> > > > >> Secondly, if I am seeing a photo of a specimen for sale on a dealer's > > > >> website, that photo better represent a specimen that dealer owns and > > > >> that dealer shot the photo or has permission from the original > > > >> photographer to use that photo. We've seen dealers who steal photos > > > >> from other dealers and then try to pull scams and sell specimens they > > > >> don't actually own. This is not an isolated unique thing - it has > > > >> happened before, been pointed out on this List in the past, and it is > > > >> happening again. I will say this, to my knowledge, the guilty party > > > >> is NOT a List member that is active or known. This person may be a > > > >> lurker, but they are not known. > > > >> > > > >> However, this person does have a website and they do sell on eBay > > > >> using at least one or more seller accounts. Worse, I have seen other > > > >> collectors and some dealers leaving good feedback to this dubious > > > >> seller after purchasing specimens that may be in question now. Some > > > >> of these people I saw leaving feedback are List members or persons > > > >> known to List members. > > > >> > > > >> To my knowledge, this person is not an IMCA member. But, this person > > > >> frequently purchases material from List members, known dealers, and > > > >> IMCA members. > > > >> > > > >> I fear and strongly suspect that this person is spreading > > > >> misrepresented material into many collections across the world, thanks > > > >> to eBay and the internet. Some of the people who have purchased > > > >> material from this suspect dealer are good people, people we know, and > > > >> people who should now be concerned that portions of their collections > > > >> may be compromised. > > > >> > > > >> I am currently conferring with a couple of other honest dealers who > > > >> have some knowledge of this person and we will alert the collector > > > >> community when we arrive at a consensus of what exactly is going on, > > > >> how wide-reaching the damage is, and what we can say/do about it to > > > >> prevent further damage. > > > >> > > > >> Stay tuned. > > > >> > > > >> Best regards, > > > >> > > > >> MikeG > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/ > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Received on Sat 08 Dec 2012 01:05:50 AM PST |
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