[meteorite-list] Home, Home on La Grange!
From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 23:59:44 -0500 Message-ID: <BB2A1F7D4ACD4EDDB5A8C962BA7E93D9_at_ATARIENGINE2> Doug, I believe Anaxagoras was referring to the Anti-Earth, a body thought possible (in either a geocentric or a heliocentric system) that was always behind the Sun from the viewpoint of Earth, hence "never seen by us." It's an idea that doesn't go away (like it should): http://files.ncas.org/condon/text/appndx-e.htm But it was Pythogoras, the first to call the earth "round" and not the center of the universe, a word he invented, BTW: "cosmos" or universe. And he had that Theorem thingee, too. Yes, the Anti-Earth was his idea... So, he missed one. But, when I read your post, Doug, I thought you meant the Kordylewski clouds --- "large concentrations of dust that may exist at the L4 and L5 Lagrangian points of the Earth-Moon system." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kordylewski_cloud "The existence of a photometrically confirmable concentration of dust at the libration points was predicted by Professor J. Witkowski in 1951. The clouds were first seen by Kordylewski in 1956. Between 6 March and 6 April, 1961 he succeeded in photographing two bright patches near the L5 libration point. During the observation time the patches hardly appeared to move relative to L5... In 1967, J. Wesley Simpson made observations of the clouds using the Kuiper Airborne Observatory. The existence of the Kordylewski clouds is still under dispute. The Japanese Hiten space probe, which passed through the libration points to detect trapped dust particles, did not find an obvious increase in dust levels above the density in surrounding space..." The Kordylewski clouds are a very faint phenomenon, comparable to the brightness of the Gegenschein and, as the Lagrangian points are unstable, they may be a random and transient phenomenon. They are reported to have an angular diameter of up to 6 degrees and to orbit the Lagrangian points in elipses, when seen. L5 clouds seem to be observed more than L4 coulds. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Lagrange_points_Earth_vs_Moon.jpg Grrrr! No dust! http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v224/n5219/abs/224571a0.html Anyone got Sky and Telescope, 22, 63 (1961)? There are Kordylewski's photos in there. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fspaceflight.esa.int%2Fstrategy%2Fpages%2FHome__Events__Why_the_moon__Posters__P12_Laufer.cfm&rct=j&q=kordylewski%20sky%20%26%20telescope&ei=XJ8KTsSgGI2qsALIosGjAQ&usg=AFQjCNFOB0d25_NmBxPsAyX99MoNzDyWpg&sig2=98jwIRBEppaJQdNioVXWdw&cad=rja More Moons of the Earth: http://library.thinkquest.org/25401/data/discovery/text/hyp.html?tql-iframe#moon "In October 1956, Kordylewski saw, for the first time, a fairly bright patch in one of the two positions. It was not small, subtending an angle of 2? (i.e. about 4 times larger than the Moon itself). It also was very faint, only about half as bright as the notoriously difficult Gegenschein (counterglow - a bright patch in the zodiacal light, directly opposite to the Sun). In March and April 1961, Kordylewski succeeded in photographing two clouds near the expected positions. They seem to vary in extent, but that may be due to changing illumination. J. Roach detected these cloud satellites in 1975 with the OSO (Orbiting Solar Observatory) 6 spacecraft. In 1990, they were again photographed, this time by the Polish astronomer Winiarski, who found that they were a few degrees in apparent diameter, that they "wandered" up to 10? away from the "trojan" point, and that they were somewhat redder than the zodiacal light." Photometry didn't find any clouds: http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/124326.pdf Kordylewski clouds at the Earth-Sun Lagrangian points? http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=6228 and http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/04/10/1224231/STEREO-Spacecraft-To-Explore-Earths-L4-and-L5 Lots of "things" at Lagrangian Points... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_objects_at_Lagrangian_points The Clouds of Kordylewski? I think they come and go... Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com> To: "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases andmeteoriterecovery) Doug, I think you missed a key word in my post, "... known ...". Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 ----- Original Message ----- From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> To: damoclid at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) Richard K says: "There are no known Earth Trojans." Hi Richard, Come on ol' friend, even 2500 years ago Anaxagoras deduced: "Under the stars are the Sun and Moon, and also certain bodies which revolve with them, but are invisible to us." and we've observed enough meteorites to vindicate him! The "invisible" he was talking about refers to them being too small to have enough light to reflect to be seen. What is the median threshold resolution we are talking about nowadays (in mass or diameter) at that distance? Perhaps the points are not a pocket full of horses, but Chincoteague Ponies, some used, would be a coupe. Regardless, towing an asteroid back to earth wasn't what I had in mind at all. Look, we've even sent Stardust to play tennis with comets, in hope of getting some micron sized particles, while ignoring the voluminous information guaranteed to be on the shelves of these libration libraries, not in mass, but in rubble and dust, a page at a time and conveniently located. Best wishes Doug -----Original Message----- From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) ________________________________ From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> To: etmeteorites at hotmail.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] trips to the Moon (Moon bases and meteoriterecovery) You want to go the the nearer Lagrangian Points in plain space between the Earth and Moon. That is where the most fascinating stuff is to be found, written in unaltered stone the genesis of the Moon and plenty more debris to keep scientists and collectors busy and overworked for the nex 10,000 years! There are no known Earth Trojans. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-listReceived on Wed 29 Jun 2011 12:59:44 AM PDT |
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