[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:48:55 -0500
Message-ID: <e51421551002161948i255cdb00hd065d24d66ce8c19_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks!

So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? I wish I had a piece big
enough to smell without actually inhaling it.

If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL

Best regards,

MikeG



On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
> Murchison in the morning.
>
> Sent from Gary's iPhone
>
> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>> cognac.
>>
>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>
>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>>> more special to it.
>>>
>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>>> prices on ebay:
>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>
>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>
>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>
>>> Greg Catterton
>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>> IMCA member 4682
>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>>
>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>> first row.
>>>>
>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>> pattern.
>>>>
>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>> diversity?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>> scientist ...
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>> research we (a
>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>> months on
>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>> organic contents.
>>>>
>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>> the list of
>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>> "organic
>>>> contant".
>>>>
>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>> (right in
>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>> anounced
>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>
>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>
>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>> comments
>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>
>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>> we had found
>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>> targeted.
>>>>
>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>> of
>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>> that seems to
>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>> meteorites in
>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>> particular, that
>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>
>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>> Philippe
>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>> in 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>> all the
>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>> discern and
>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>> expertise
>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>> expectations.
>>>>
>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>> other
>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>> continuously;
>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>
>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>
>>>> Zelimir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>
>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison
>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that
>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>> older than the solar system."
>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding
>>>> up
>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>> Journal,
>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>
>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net
>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>> author ]
>>>>>
>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>> Compounds
>>>>>
>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>
>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>> hasn't quit giving up its
>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>> it fell through the
>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>> system's planet-forming disk of
>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>> holding onto a 4 billion
>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>> from material older than our
>>>>> sun.
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>> saw the complexity I was so
>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>> to understand them you
>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>
>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>> the researchers weren't
>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>> broad analysis for all the
>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>> the primordial solar system
>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>> amino acids were
>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>> the iceberg; the meteorite
>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>> help us understand how life
>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>> system, collecting all the
>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>> systems?
>>>>>
>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>
>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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-- 
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http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
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Received on Tue 16 Feb 2010 10:48:55 PM PST