[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:38:03 -1000
Message-ID: <C0AA9722-2C2D-42E5-A789-43B2F5B2DC18_at_mac.com>

Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
Murchison in the morning.

Sent from Gary's iPhone

On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
> cognac.
>
> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>
>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>> more special to it.
>>
>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>> prices on ebay:
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>
>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>
>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>
>> Greg Catterton
>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> IMCA member 4682
>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>
>>
>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>>
>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>> first row.
>>>
>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>> diversity?
>>>
>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>> scientist ...
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Matthias B.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darren, list,
>>>
>>>
>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>> research we (a
>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>> months on
>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>> extraterrestrial
>>> organic contents.
>>>
>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>> the list of
>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>> "organic
>>> contant".
>>>
>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>> (right in
>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>> anounced
>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>
>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>
>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>
>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>
>>>
>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>> comments
>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>
>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>> we had found
>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>> targeted.
>>>
>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>> of
>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>> that seems to
>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>> meteorites in
>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>> particular, that
>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>
>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>> Philippe
>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>> in 2008.
>>>
>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>> all the
>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>> discern and
>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>> expertise
>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>> expectations.
>>>
>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>> other
>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>> continuously;
>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>
>>> My best wishes,
>>>
>>> Zelimir
>>>
>>>
>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>> a ??crit? :
>>>
>>>> Darren and List
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison
>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that
>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>> older than the solar system."
>>>> But just how old?
>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding
>>> up
>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>> Journal,
>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>
>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3
>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>> years ago."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>
>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison
>>> meteorite.
>>>>
>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy
>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net
>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>> author ]
>>>>
>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>
>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>> Compounds
>>>>
>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>
>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>> hasn't quit giving up its
>>>> secrets.
>>>>
>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>> space rocks because many
>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>> it fell through the
>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>> recovered.
>>>>
>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>> scientists as they were
>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>> system's planet-forming disk of
>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>> holding onto a 4 billion
>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>> another clue as to the
>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>> from material older than our
>>>> sun.
>>>>
>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>> saw the complexity I was so
>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>
>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>> to understand them you
>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>
>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>> has provided scientists
>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>> the researchers weren't
>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>> broad analysis for all the
>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>
>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>> the primordial solar system
>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>
>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>> amino acids were
>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>> the iceberg; the meteorite
>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>
>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>> help us understand how life
>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>> system, collecting all the
>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>> systems?
>>>>
>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>> asteroids and other
>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>> life when everywhere else
>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>
>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>> to "seed" young star
>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>> The conditions for life
>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Tue 16 Feb 2010 09:38:03 PM PST