[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: Greg Redfern <gredfern_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:31:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <31964642.1266373885775.JavaMail.root_at_mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine cognac.

This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)

Greg


-----Original Message-----
>From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>
>I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>When information comes out like this, it always adds something even more special to it.
>
>Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good prices on ebay:
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>
>Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to show that the study of this is ongoing.
>
>Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>
>Greg Catterton
>www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>IMCA member 4682
>On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>
>
>--- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>
>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>>
>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>> first row.
>>
>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>> pattern.
>>
>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>> diversity?
>>
>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>> scientist ...
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Matthias B.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>
>>
>>
>> Darren, list,
>>
>>
>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>> research we (a
>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>> months on
>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>> extraterrestrial
>> organic contents.
>>
>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>> the list of
>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>> "organic
>> contant".
>>
>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>> (right in
>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>> anounced
>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>
>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>
>> Abstract can be read here:
>>
>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>
>>
>> More discussions are available through various media press
>> comments
>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>
>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>> we had found
>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>> targeted.
>>
>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>> of
>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>> that seems to
>> provoke debate in the media.
>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>> meteorites in
>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>> particular, that
>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>
>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>> Philippe
>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>> in 2008.
>>
>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>> all the
>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>> discern and
>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>> expertise
>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>> expectations.
>>
>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>> other
>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>> continuously;
>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>
>> My best wishes,
>>
>> Zelimir
>>
>>
>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>> a ??crit? :
>>
>> > Darren and List
>> >
>> > Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>> how scientist? have identified over 14,000 compounds
>> and counting. While we are on? the topic of Murchison
>> meteorite, I came across an article on line? that
>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>> Murchison? as quoted from the article as follows....
>> > "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>> > "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>> older than? the solar system."
>> > But just how old?
>> > Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>> Murchison? meteorite, which is well-known for the
>> > organic material it contains, and measured how long
>> the grains spent? in interstellar space before winding
>> up
>> > in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>> reported in a? recent paper of the Astrophysical
>> Journal,
>> > appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>> > Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>> >
>> > "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>> that the? majority of grains spent between 3
>> > and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>> > years ago."
>> >
>> >
>> > Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>> > http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>> >
>> > and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>> age of presolar? SiC grains found in Murchison
>> meteorite.
>> >
>> > http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>> >
>> > Enjoy
>> > Shawn Alan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>> Garrison? cynapse at charter.net
>> > Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>> >
>> >
>> > Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>> Meteorite Hunt -? February 15, 2009
>> > Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>> author ]
>> >
>> > http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>> >
>> > Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>> Compounds
>> >
>> > By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>> >
>> > A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>> hasn't quit? giving up its
>> > secrets.
>> >
>> > The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>> space rocks because many
>> > pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>> it fell through the
>> > atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>> > recovered.
>> >
>> > Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>> scientists as they were
>> > formed from material that existed in the solar
>> system's? planet-forming disk of
>> > gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>> holding onto? a 4 billion
>> > year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>> >
>> > In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>> another clue as to the
>> > abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>> Earth had formed. In
>> > fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>> from material? older than our
>> > sun.
>> >
>> > "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>> saw the? complexity I was so
>> > amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>> Institute for Ecological
>> > Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>> >
>> > "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>> to understand them you
>> > are looking back in time."
>> >
>> > This new research made use of high resolution
>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>> > the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>> has provided scientists
>> > with vast amounts of information about specific
>> carbon-based organics before,
>> > this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>> the? researchers weren't
>> > tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>> broad analysis? for all the
>> > chemicals it might contain.
>> >
>> > And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>> the primordial? solar system
>> > probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>> present-day Earth.
>> >
>> > In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>> amino acids were
>> > identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>> the iceberg;? the meteorite
>> > probably contains millions of different organic
>> compounds. More detailed
>> > analysis will now be carried out.
>> >
>> > But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>> of organic chemicals that
>> > were floating around a primordial solar system will
>> help us? understand how life
>> > may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>> carbonaceous chondrite
>> > drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>> system,? collecting all the
>> > basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>> that mean diverse organic
>> > chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>> systems?
>> >
>> > These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>> asteroids and other
>> > planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>> life when everywhere else
>> > seems to be lifeless?
>> >
>> > If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>> to "seed" young star
>> > systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>> The conditions for life
>> > may not be that rare after all.
>> >
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Received on Tue 16 Feb 2010 09:31:25 PM PST