[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:38:04 +0000
Message-ID: <20100217123804.RB1KI.743571.root_at_web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi All,

Really excited by all this Murchison talk and new science....by some strange luck I 'invested' in a 50g lump before Tucson that should arrive in the post (fingers crossed) within the week...can't wait for a sniff!

Graham E, UK

 
---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Folks!
>
> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? I wish I had a piece big
> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>
> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
> > Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
> > Murchison in the morning.
> >
> > Sent from Gary's iPhone
> >
> > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
> >> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
> >> cognac.
> >>
> >> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
> >>
> >> Greg
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> >>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
> >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>
> >>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
> >>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
> >>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
> >>> more special to it.
> >>>
> >>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
> >>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
> >>> prices on ebay:
> >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
> >>>
> >>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
> >>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
> >>>
> >>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
> >>>
> >>> Greg Catterton
> >>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> >>> IMCA member 4682
> >>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
> >>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
> >>>>
> >>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
> >>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
> >>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
> >>>> first row.
> >>>>
> >>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
> >>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
> >>>> pattern.
> >>>>
> >>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
> >>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
> >>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
> >>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
> >>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
> >>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
> >>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
> >>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
> >>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
> >>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
> >>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
> >>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
> >>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
> >>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
> >>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
> >>>> diversity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
> >>>> scientist ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Matthias B.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> >>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Darren, list,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
> >>>> research we (a
> >>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
> >>>> months on
> >>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
> >>>> extraterrestrial
> >>>> organic contents.
> >>>>
> >>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
> >>>> the list of
> >>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
> >>>> "organic
> >>>> contant".
> >>>>
> >>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
> >>>> (right in
> >>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
> >>>> anounced
> >>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
> >>>>
> >>>> Abstract can be read here:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> More discussions are available through various media press
> >>>> comments
> >>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
> >>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
> >>>>
> >>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
> >>>> we had found
> >>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
> >>>> targeted.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
> >>>> of
> >>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
> >>>> that seems to
> >>>> provoke debate in the media.
> >>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
> >>>> meteorites in
> >>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
> >>>> particular, that
> >>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
> >>>>
> >>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
> >>>> Philippe
> >>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
> >>>> all the
> >>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
> >>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
> >>>> discern and
> >>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
> >>>> expertise
> >>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
> >>>> expectations.
> >>>>
> >>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
> >>>> other
> >>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
> >>>> continuously;
> >>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
> >>>>
> >>>> My best wishes,
> >>>>
> >>>> Zelimir
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> >>>> a ??crit? :
> >>>>
> >>>>> Darren and List
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
> >>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds
> >>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison
> >>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that
> >>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
> >>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows....
> >>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
> >>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
> >>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
> >>>> older than the solar system."
> >>>>> But just how old?
> >>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
> >>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
> >>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
> >>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding
> >>>> up
> >>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
> >>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical
> >>>> Journal,
> >>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
> >>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
> >>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
> >>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3
> >>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
> >>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
> >>>>> years ago."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
> >>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
> >>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison
> >>>> meteorite.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Enjoy
> >>>>> Shawn Alan
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
> >>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net
> >>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
> >>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
> >>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
> >>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
> >>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> >>>> author ]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
> >>>> Compounds
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
> >>>> hasn't quit giving up its
> >>>>> secrets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
> >>>> space rocks because many
> >>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
> >>>> it fell through the
> >>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
> >>>>> recovered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
> >>>> scientists as they were
> >>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
> >>>> system's planet-forming disk of
> >>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
> >>>> holding onto a 4 billion
> >>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
> >>>> another clue as to the
> >>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
> >>>> Earth had formed. In
> >>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
> >>>> from material older than our
> >>>>> sun.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
> >>>> saw the complexity I was so
> >>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
> >>>> Institute for Ecological
> >>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
> >>>> to understand them you
> >>>>> are looking back in time."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
> >>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
> >>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
> >>>> has provided scientists
> >>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
> >>>> carbon-based organics before,
> >>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
> >>>> the researchers weren't
> >>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
> >>>> broad analysis for all the
> >>>>> chemicals it might contain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
> >>>> the primordial solar system
> >>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
> >>>> present-day Earth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
> >>>> amino acids were
> >>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
> >>>> the iceberg; the meteorite
> >>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
> >>>> compounds. More detailed
> >>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
> >>>> of organic chemicals that
> >>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
> >>>> help us understand how life
> >>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite
> >>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
> >>>> system, collecting all the
> >>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
> >>>> that mean diverse organic
> >>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
> >>>> systems?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
> >>>> asteroids and other
> >>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
> >>>> life when everywhere else
> >>>>> seems to be lifeless?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
> >>>> to "seed" young star
> >>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
> >>>> The conditions for life
> >>>>> may not be that rare after all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>
> >>
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>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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Received on Wed 17 Feb 2010 07:38:04 AM PST