[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: dave carothers <carothersdl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:14:25 -0500
Message-ID: <5FFA36B7663342A2B225D275AAE24283_at_your291etg47cr>

Wow!!! Everyone's getting high snorting Murchison. Before you know it, the
Feds will make it a crime.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: "Gary Fujihara" <fujmon at mac.com>; "Galactic Stone & Ironworks"
<meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg Redfern"
<gredfern at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....


> Hi All,
>
> Really excited by all this Murchison talk and new science....by some
> strange luck I 'invested' in a 50g lump before Tucson that should arrive
> in the post (fingers crossed) within the week...can't wait for a sniff!
>
> Graham E, UK
>
>
> ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Folks!
>>
>> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? I wish I had a piece big
>> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>>
>> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
>> > Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
>> > Murchison in the morning.
>> >
>> > Sent from Gary's iPhone
>> >
>> > On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern <gredfern at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>> >> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>> >> cognac.
>> >>
>> >> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>> >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>
>> >>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>> >>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>> >>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>> >>> more special to it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>> >>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>> >>> prices on ebay:
>> >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>> >>>
>> >>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>> >>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>> >>>
>> >>> Greg Catterton
>> >>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>> >>> IMCA member 4682
>> >>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>> >>>> Hello Zelimir & Murchisionados,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>> >>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>> >>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>> >>>> first row.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>> >>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>> >>>> pattern.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>> >>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>> >>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>> >>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>> >>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>> >>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>> >>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>> >>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>> >>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>> >>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>> >>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>> >>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>> >>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>> >>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>> >>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>> >>>> diversity?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>> >>>> scientist ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Matthias B.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>> >>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Darren, list,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>> >>>> research we (a
>> >>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>> >>>> months on
>> >>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>> >>>> extraterrestrial
>> >>>> organic contents.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>> >>>> the list of
>> >>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>> >>>> "organic
>> >>>> contant".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>> >>>> (right in
>> >>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>> >>>> anounced
>> >>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Abstract can be read here:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>> >>>> comments
>> >>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>> >>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>> >>>>
>> >>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>> >>>> we had found
>> >>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>> >>>> targeted.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>> >>>> that seems to
>> >>>> provoke debate in the media.
>> >>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>> >>>> meteorites in
>> >>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>> >>>> particular, that
>> >>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>> >>>> Philippe
>> >>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>> >>>> in 2008.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>> >>>> all the
>> >>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR & GC) were run.
>> >>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>> >>>> discern and
>> >>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>> >>>> expertise
>> >>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>> >>>> expectations.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>> >>>> continuously;
>> >>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My best wishes,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Zelimir
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>> >>>> a ??crit? :
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Darren and List
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>> >>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds
>> >>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison
>> >>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that
>> >>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>> >>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows....
>> >>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>> >>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>> >>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>> >>>> older than the solar system."
>> >>>>> But just how old?
>> >>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>> >>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
>> >>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>> >>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding
>> >>>> up
>> >>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>> >>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical
>> >>>> Journal,
>> >>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>> >>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>> >>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>> >>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3
>> >>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>> >>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>> >>>>> years ago."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>> >>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>> >>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison
>> >>>> meteorite.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Enjoy
>> >>>>> Shawn Alan
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>> >>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net
>> >>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>> >>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> >>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>> >>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>> >>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>> >>>> author ]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>> >>>> Compounds
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>> >>>> hasn't quit giving up its
>> >>>>> secrets.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>> >>>> space rocks because many
>> >>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>> >>>> it fell through the
>> >>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>> >>>>> recovered.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>> >>>> scientists as they were
>> >>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>> >>>> system's planet-forming disk of
>> >>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>> >>>> holding onto a 4 billion
>> >>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>> >>>> another clue as to the
>> >>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>> >>>> Earth had formed. In
>> >>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>> >>>> from material older than our
>> >>>>> sun.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>> >>>> saw the complexity I was so
>> >>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>> >>>> Institute for Ecological
>> >>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>> >>>> to understand them you
>> >>>>> are looking back in time."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>> >>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>> >>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>> >>>> has provided scientists
>> >>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>> >>>> carbon-based organics before,
>> >>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>> >>>> the researchers weren't
>> >>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>> >>>> broad analysis for all the
>> >>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>> >>>> the primordial solar system
>> >>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>> >>>> present-day Earth.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>> >>>> amino acids were
>> >>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>> >>>> the iceberg; the meteorite
>> >>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>> >>>> compounds. More detailed
>> >>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>> >>>> of organic chemicals that
>> >>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>> >>>> help us understand how life
>> >>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>> >>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>> >>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>> >>>> system, collecting all the
>> >>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>> >>>> that mean diverse organic
>> >>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>> >>>> systems?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>> >>>> asteroids and other
>> >>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>> >>>> life when everywhere else
>> >>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>> >>>> to "seed" young star
>> >>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>> >>>> The conditions for life
>> >>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ______________________________________________
>> >>> Visit the Archives at
>> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> Visit the Archives at
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > Visit the Archives at
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
Received on Wed 17 Feb 2010 11:14:25 PM PST