[meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....

From: Meteorites USA <eric_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:55:48 -0800
Message-ID: <4B7B68C4.7060306_at_meteoritesusa.com>

LOL LMAO!!! Now that was funny! Nice Mike...



On 2/16/2010 7:48 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi Folks!
>
> So it's true about the aroma of Murchison? I wish I had a piece big
> enough to smell without actually inhaling it.
>
> If I try to sniff my current Murchison, it will fly up my nose. LOL
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 2/16/10, Gary Fujihara<fujmon at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Ha ha! I concur, and must confess that I too love the smell of
>> Murchison in the morning.
>>
>> Sent from Gary's iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2010, at 4:31 PM, Greg Redfern<gredfern at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My pristine Jim Strope 80g Murchison is kept under a bell jar. I
>>> LOVE the smell of all the aromatic compounds. Smells like a fine
>>> cognac.
>>>
>>> This meteorite is a joy to behold both visually and by inhaling ;-)
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: Greg Catterton<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:01 PM
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>
>>>> I have to agree, this has been an awesome discussion.
>>>> Murchison is one of my favorite samples in my collection.
>>>> When information comes out like this, it always adds something even
>>>> more special to it.
>>>>
>>>> Not an ad for me but, if anyone following this does not currently
>>>> have a sample, Gary has some really nice samples at very good
>>>> prices on ebay:
>>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZfujmonQQhtZ-1
>>>>
>>>> Its a must have for collectors, and this recent news just goes to
>>>> show that the study of this is ongoing.
>>>>
>>>> Any other links to information on this meteorite would be great!
>>>>
>>>> Greg Catterton
>>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>>> IMCA member 4682
>>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Matthias B?rmann<majbaermann at web.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Matthias B?rmann<majbaermann at web.de>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>> To: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:39 PM
>>>>> Hello Zelimir& Murchisionados,
>>>>>
>>>>> highly interesting indeed: thanks so much for informing us
>>>>> about your and your colleagues scientific work and giving us
>>>>> so the feeling of being privileged enough to sit in the very
>>>>> first row.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand your approach correct, your non-targeted
>>>>> focus of investigation leads directly to a highly diverse
>>>>> pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last sentence of the abstract reads: "This molecular
>>>>> complexity, which provides hints on heteroatoms
>>>>> chronological assembly, suggests that the extraterrestrial
>>>>> chemodiversity is high compared to terrestrial relevant
>>>>> biological- and biogeochemical-driven chemical space." The
>>>>> high level of extraterrestrial chemodiversity vs. the less
>>>>> diverse terrestrial "chemical space" - could that mean that
>>>>> development of life could depend on a kind of reduction of
>>>>> diversity? Caused by selection (= "targetting"?)? Life would
>>>>> be essentially linked to a process of picking up elements
>>>>> out of the construction kit? But than it begins to play by
>>>>> combining them? Wouldn't that point to the necessity to make
>>>>> a strong distinction between diversity and complexity? Could
>>>>> that mean that the complexity of terrestrial biological and
>>>>> biochemical "space" is a result of reduction of (initial)
>>>>> diversity?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps six (crazy) questions too much from a non-natural
>>>>> scientist ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Matthias B.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:<Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
>>>>> To:<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] organics in Muchison.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Darren, list,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The media info Darren is speaking about refers to the
>>>>> research we (a
>>>>> group of scientists) are being conducting since several
>>>>> months on
>>>>> Murchison, namely a non targeted analysis of its
>>>>> extraterrestrial
>>>>> organic contents.
>>>>>
>>>>> In a post I sent by end of last September, I had notified
>>>>> the list of
>>>>> that work by just mentioning the keywords "Murchison" and
>>>>> "organic
>>>>> contant".
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper, that was submitted for publication in due time
>>>>> (right in
>>>>> time for the 40th anniversary of Murchison fall), was just
>>>>> anounced
>>>>> released out of press a couple of hours ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the reference: PNAS, 107 (7), 2763 -2768 (2010).
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract can be read here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pnas.org/content/107/7/2763
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> More discussions are available through various media press
>>>>> comments
>>>>> (easily found by Googling with keys: "Murchison, Phillippe
>>>>> Schmitt-Kopplin").
>>>>>
>>>>> May I just insist that the incredible number of molecules
>>>>> we had found
>>>>> originated from the fact that the screening was not
>>>>> targeted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also we never claimed that any of the hundreds of thousands
>>>>> of
>>>>> molecules we detected had a pre-biotic origin, something
>>>>> that seems to
>>>>> provoke debate in the media.
>>>>> Our work just shows there's no shortage of molecules on
>>>>> meteorites in
>>>>> general, and in Murchison, taken as reference in
>>>>> particular, that
>>>>> origin-of-life researchers could investigate...
>>>>>
>>>>> Those familtar with Ensisheim shows might remember that
>>>>> Philippe
>>>>> (Phil) was our new enthroned Ensisheim meteorite guardian
>>>>> in 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil is the head of the lab in Neuherberg (Munich) where
>>>>> all the
>>>>> measurements (combined FTICR-MS,NMR& GC) were run.
>>>>> We all, co-authors, are deeply indebted to him for his
>>>>> discern and
>>>>> faith in initiating that challenging research and for his
>>>>> expertise
>>>>> that caused its success beyond any of our initial
>>>>> expectations.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far we have recorded tons of other data on "many more"
>>>>> other
>>>>> meteorites. More exciting and weird results are coming
>>>>> continuously;
>>>>> thay will be published in the months to come.
>>>>>
>>>>> My best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Zelimir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn Alan<photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>>> a ??crit? :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Darren and List
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for the read up on Murchison meteorite on
>>>>>>
>>>>> how scientist have identified over 14,000 compounds
>>>>> and counting. While we are on the topic of Murchison
>>>>> meteorite, I came across an article on line that
>>>>> points out these interesting facts and finds on the
>>>>> Murchison as quoted from the article as follows....
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Presolar grains are the oldest materials in the solar
>>>>>>
>>>>> system," says Philipp Heck of the University of Chicago.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "The ages of the grains clearly indicate that they are
>>>>>>
>>>>> older than the solar system."
>>>>>
>>>>>> But just how old?
>>>>>> Heck and his colleagues isolated 22 grains from the
>>>>>>
>>>>> Murchison meteorite, which is well-known for the
>>>>>
>>>>>> organic material it contains, and measured how long
>>>>>>
>>>>> the grains spent in interstellar space before winding
>>>>> up
>>>>>
>>>>>> in our nascent solar system. The implied grain ages,
>>>>>>
>>>>> reported in a recent paper of the Astrophysical
>>>>> Journal,
>>>>>
>>>>>> appear to support a hypothesis that our solar system
>>>>>>
>>>>> formed after a smaller satellite galaxy crashed into the
>>>>>
>>>>>> Milky Way around 6 billion years ago."......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "From the isotope abundances, the researchers estimate
>>>>>>
>>>>> that the majority of grains spent between 3
>>>>>
>>>>>> and 200 million years in interstellar space before
>>>>>>
>>>>> falling into our molecular cloud some 4.6 billion
>>>>>
>>>>>> years ago."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the link to the article I found on line.
>>>>>> http://www.astrobio.net/pdffiles/news_3202.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and if your up for a read, here is an article on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> age of presolar SiC grains found in Murchison
>>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://presolar.wustl.edu/ref/Gyngard09b.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Enjoy
>>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [meteorite-list] Murchison-- chock full o' stuffDarren
>>>>>>
>>>>> Garrison cynapse at charter.net
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tue Feb 16 00:25:30 EST 2010
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] West Texas
>>>>>>
>>>>> Meteorite Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] West Texas Meteorite
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hunt - February 15, 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
>>>>>>
>>>>> author ]
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://news.discovery.com/space/meteorite-crammed-with-millions-of-organic-compounds.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meteorite Crammed with 'Millions' of Organic
>>>>>>
>>>>> Compounds
>>>>>
>>>>>> By Ian O'Neill | Mon Feb 15, 2010 04:52 PM ET
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A meteorite that hit the town of Murchison, Australia,
>>>>>>
>>>>> hasn't quit giving up its
>>>>>
>>>>>> secrets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Murchison meteorite is one of the most studied
>>>>>>
>>>>> space rocks because many
>>>>>
>>>>>> pieces were recovered after it was seen breaking up as
>>>>>>
>>>>> it fell through the
>>>>>
>>>>>> atmosphere in 1969. Approximately 100 kg of the
>>>>>>
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite was
>>>>>
>>>>>> recovered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carbonaceous chondrites are extremely important to
>>>>>>
>>>>> scientists as they were
>>>>>
>>>>>> formed from material that existed in the solar
>>>>>>
>>>>> system's planet-forming disk of
>>>>>
>>>>>> gas and dust. They are, quite literally, time capsules
>>>>>>
>>>>> holding onto a 4 billion
>>>>>
>>>>>> year old record of the birth of our solar system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this case, the Murchison meteorite has given us
>>>>>>
>>>>> another clue as to the
>>>>>
>>>>>> abundance of organic chemicals that existed before the
>>>>>>
>>>>> Earth had formed. In
>>>>>
>>>>>> fact, this particular meteorite may have originated
>>>>>>
>>>>> from material older than our
>>>>>
>>>>>> sun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We are really excited. When I first studied it and
>>>>>>
>>>>> saw the complexity I was so
>>>>>
>>>>>> amazed," said Dr Phillipe Schmitt-Kopplin, of the
>>>>>>
>>>>> Institute for Ecological
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chemistry in Neuherberg, Germany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Meteorites are like some kind of fossil. When you try
>>>>>>
>>>>> to understand them you
>>>>>
>>>>>> are looking back in time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This new research made use of high resolution
>>>>>>
>>>>> spectroscopic tools to identify
>>>>>
>>>>>> the various compounds inside. Although this meteorite
>>>>>>
>>>>> has provided scientists
>>>>>
>>>>>> with vast amounts of information about specific
>>>>>>
>>>>> carbon-based organics before,
>>>>>
>>>>>> this was the first non-targeted study. In other words,
>>>>>>
>>>>> the researchers weren't
>>>>>
>>>>>> tracking down just one type of chemical, they did a
>>>>>>
>>>>> broad analysis for all the
>>>>>
>>>>>> chemicals it might contain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what they found came as a shock, it appears that
>>>>>>
>>>>> the primordial solar system
>>>>>
>>>>>> probably had a higher chemical diversity than
>>>>>>
>>>>> present-day Earth.
>>>>>
>>>>>> In this study, 14,000 specific compounds including 70
>>>>>>
>>>>> amino acids were
>>>>>
>>>>>> identified. But this number appears to be the tip of
>>>>>>
>>>>> the iceberg; the meteorite
>>>>>
>>>>>> probably contains millions of different organic
>>>>>>
>>>>> compounds. More detailed
>>>>>
>>>>>> analysis will now be carried out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But why is this important? To understand the diversity
>>>>>>
>>>>> of organic chemicals that
>>>>>
>>>>>> were floating around a primordial solar system will
>>>>>>
>>>>> help us understand how life
>>>>>
>>>>>> may have appeared on Earth. This particular chunk of
>>>>>>
>>>>> carbonaceous chondrite
>>>>>
>>>>>> drifted through the gas and dust of the early solar
>>>>>>
>>>>> system, collecting all the
>>>>>
>>>>>> basic organic chemistry from around that time, does
>>>>>>
>>>>> that mean diverse organic
>>>>>
>>>>>> chemistry is the "norm" for proto-planetary star
>>>>>>
>>>>> systems?
>>>>>
>>>>>> These organic compounds are known to exist on comets,
>>>>>>
>>>>> asteroids and other
>>>>>
>>>>>> planetary bodies, so what makes Earth the hothouse of
>>>>>>
>>>>> life when everywhere else
>>>>>
>>>>>> seems to be lifeless?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If organic chemistry is ubiquitous, perhaps planning
>>>>>>
>>>>> to "seed" young star
>>>>>
>>>>>> systems with Earth-based life isn't such a good idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The conditions for life
>>>>>
>>>>>> may not be that rare after all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>
Received on Tue 16 Feb 2010 10:55:48 PM PST