[meteorite-list] WG: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation from Dave

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 1:31:24 -0400
Message-ID: <20090311013124.615F5.76777.imail_at_fed1rmwml36>

Darryl, Anne, Martin, all,
To Darryl's point; When we bombed Japan we detonated well above grade. I would think we would all agree that the people were killed by the bomb even though not a direct hit.
But even more important to the true hammer issue is that the big bang that caused the crater at Carancas did in fact hit a spring that had built around it, man made levees in order to hold back the water for the animals to drink from. That means by definition the whole enchilada was a hammer and not just the pieces that hit the house because it destroyed a man made levee.
I would also like to add that Carancas is the most under appreciated hammer of them all. This fall caused all of the books on impact to need to be re-written. In addition it's cosmochemistry is still considered inexplicable and not even published yet because they cannot figure it out. I am told they had the test equipment sent back to be re calibrated the readings were so odd. But it turned out that the instruments were okay after all and Carancas is just some really strange and historical event.
My 2 more cents.

Carl Esparza
Imca 5829
meteoritemax

---- Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Walter!
>
> With all respect....
>
> In ANY report---except where there exist the specificity of a coroner
> or scholarly assessment---bomb victims are bomb victims.
>
> There is never differentiation between those killed by blast injury,
> penetrating wounds, blunt trauma or smoke/fire. In fact the foregoing
> types of injury are correctly referred to as primary, secondary,
> tertiary and miscellaneous BLAST INJURIES. Primary blast injury is
> specifically a rapid increase in air pressure--a shock wave.
>
> If the bull was killed by a shock wave created by an impact---it was
> killed by the impact.
>
> And that's no bull....
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Walter Branch wrote:
>
> > Hello Darryl,
> >
> >> is a bombing victim killed by a bomb-produced shock
> >> wave not killed by the bomb?
> >
> > No. They would killed by the shock wave.
> >
> > If dirt kicked up by a meteorite hits a person, is said meteorite
> > then a "hammer?" No.
> >
> > Like all analogies, it eventually breaks down.
> >
> > It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end -
> > Douglas Adams.
> >
> > -Walter Branch
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com>
> > To: "Impactika" <impactika at aol.com>
> > Cc: <IMCA at imcamail.de>; "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: WG: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation from Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > (deep breath)
> >
> > is a bombing victim killed by a bomb-produced shock wave not killed by
> > the bomb?
> >
> >
> >
> > hi anne! ;-)
> >
> >
> > On Mar 10, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Impactika wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Dave, and all,
> >>
> >> I submit another example to you: Carancas, since it has been
> >> discussed on the other List.
> >>
> >> In my personal opinion, only one fragment of the Carancas
> >> meteorite would qualify as a hammer: the fragment that hit the
> >> house on the picture, but it would have to be properly documented,
> >> with proof that this specific fragment, and not another one, or a
> >> piece of ejecta, is the actual fragment that damaged this roof.
> >> Any other fragment is just that: a fragment of the Carancas
> >> meteorite. As for the animals, they might have been hit by a shock
> >> wave, not by a fragment of the meteorite.
> >>
> >> With the same logic, a few of the Park Forest fragments can
> >> qualify as hammers, I am talking about the actual fragments that
> >> hit cars, roofs, .... and only those. And again, only with proper
> >> verifiable documentation. All other pieces of Park Forest are just
> >> that: pieces of the Park Forest meteorite.
> >>
> >> That still leaves Peekskill and Claxton as hammer meteorites,
> >> since they are single stones, and witnessed, documented falls.
> >>
> >> As for me, as a dealer, I will not use the term hammer on my
> >> website unless I have absolute proof and documentation that a
> >> certain specimen did hit a human, animal, or something man-made
> >> (roads, trees, fields.... don't count!).
> >>
> >> But that is my opinion.
> >> Any others?
> >>
> >> Anne Black
> >> IMCA - #2356
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 03/10/09 09:16:39 Mountain Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> >> writes:
> >> Von: dave at fallingrocks.com [mailto:dave at fallingrocks.com]
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. M?rz 2009 15:47
> >> An: Martin Altmann
> >> Betreff: RE: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation
> >>
> >> Hi, Martin,
> >>
> >> Please forward this quick note back to the IMCA list; I'm on a web
> >> interface and can't respond to the list from here...thanks:
> >>
> >> . . . . . . . . . . .
> >> The problem, at least in my view, with hammers is the fact that
> >> they are most appreciated by the least meteorite-savvy buyers.
> >> These newbie collectors are most exposed to paying a ridiculous
> >> price because a piece of, say, Thuathe was found in the roof of a
> >> hut -- yet the piece they're contemplating purchase around was
> >> picked up in a field two miles away. Thuathe might not be the best
> >> example, as it's a killer meteorite in its own right. Your
> >> example of Gao- Guenie, though by no means reflected in market
> >> pricing (yet, anyway), might be better.
> >>
> >> . . . . . . . . . . .
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> IMCA #5967
> >>
> >> www.fallingrocks.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a
> >> recession.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> IMCA mailing list
> >> IMCA at imcamail.de
> >> http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca
> >
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> >
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Received on Wed 11 Mar 2009 01:31:24 AM PDT