[meteorite-list] Larry's Holbrook Holy Grail Find and BobHaag's Venus Stone

From: DNAndrews <dna1_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:48:56 -0700
Message-ID: <45E460F8.8010902_at_cableone.net>

Jason Utas wrote:

> Hello All,
> There are a few things that separate Adamana from Holbrook in my mind...
> The texture of the crust alone of Adamana versus that of Holbrook
> leaves me little doubt that the two could possibly be paired.

Hi Jason,
I think you meant to say that "the two could NOT possibly be paired?
Not trying to argue, just think a few points need to be said.

> The fusion crust of Adamana is a matte black, which contrasts sharply
> with the crust of recently found Holbrooks, which exhibit a typically
> blue/black almost shiny crust in most cases, often liberally spread
> with rust spots.
> The interior tells the same story - Adamana is a uniform brown, with
> chondrules poking out here and there. Recently found Holbrooks tend
> to be less weathered internally, if not more externally, and their
> dark chondrules contrast starkly with the lighter matrix, creating a
> much more heterogeneous appearance than that of Adamana.

If indeed the Adamana meteorite is the front piece of the Holbrook, and
I'm NOT saying it is, then it would have the thickest primary crust out
of any other portion of the fall. There are pictures of original finds
that have chondrules as much as 5-7 mm in diameter. Also, one has to
keep in mind that it was found in a horse corral. I'm sure acidic horse
urine and different soil conditions could have some kind of effect on it
as well...IF it was. I'm just saying that I for one, am not quite ready
to throw the "half-baked" theory in the trash....yet.

> The location of the find....
> Fifteen miles is simply impossible, unless it was artificially
> transported.

Actually, the Adamana Meteorite was found 11 miles from Arntz (aka
Aztec). Not quite all the way to Adamana which is 13 miles "as the
meteor flies". (I did some remeasuring). And, if the Goodwater theory
is correct, then you are only talking about 4 miles. According to the
July 26, 1912 article on the Holbrook Argus: "There was a heavy
explosion similar to that of a heavy blast followed by a fuscillade of
smaller explosions which terminated in a thunder-like rumble of
approximately two minutes in duration." In Warren Foote's Preliminary
Notes of the July 19, 1912 Meteoric Fall at Aztec, Arizona, he writes:
"It was heard in Concho, St. Joseph, Woodruff, and Pinedale, some 40
miles away. One large explosion was quickly followed by several small
ones in rapid succession."

> The mapped strewnfield was roughly one mile long by a half mile wide.

Now it's more like 3 miles long by 1 mile wide and growing. Even Warren
Foote mentions this dimension in 1912.

> The largest stone recovered, weighing in at ~14.5 lbs, was found at
> the end of this ellipse.

Hmmm....I've never heard that before. I'd like to know where you
read/heard that information as that is interesting to me. According to
Foote: "The large and small stones, according to all answers received,
were said to be indiscriminately spread over the ground, without regard
to size. The violent disruptions near Holbrook might account for the
lack of such a separation...."

> The possibility that anything made it farther than this stone is great -

In recent years, say the last 40, the larger finds that I know of have
been about in the center of the known field and on both sides of the
tracks. I and others have found many smaller ones further north and
east of these larger stones. I would like to know where the main mass
was found, but I've never been able to dig that up yet. However, I've
never read or heard anywhere that it was found at the furthest point of
the field.

> it wouldn't surprise me too greatly if a 20lber was found another
> quarter of a mile on (it could've buried itself on impact, etc), but
> to say that a smaller stone continued another fifteen miles beyond the
> known end of the strewnfield is simply ridiculous,

With all the numerous explosions, why not another 11 miles? Some parts
must have still been ablating after the main explosion to have more
explosions. At say, 7 miles per second (just as an aribitrary figure),
it wouldn't take long to cover that distance. There is still quite a
bit of material still missing off of Haag's aerodynamic piece too. But,
certainly not enough to make it come close to being the main mass.

> to say nothing of the fact that it is much too far north to even
> be near the same path as the body that created the Holbrook strewnfield.

Huh? In the Holbrook Argus article, it states: "The sky was lightly
overcast with patches of high floating clouds, but immediately after the
explosion a smoky trail similar to the smoke of an automobile's exhaust
was visible. The trail disappeared in a LITTLE NORTH of east in
direction." Well, Arntz is ENE of Holbrook and Adamana is ENE of
Arntz. The strewn field and the railroad tracks are in a ENE
orientation. Drawing a line from Holbrook through Arntz takes you right
to Adamana....in fact, this line can possibly go a little bit north of
what is shown as Adamana on a topo map. (next to the railroad tracks
where the propane plant is).

Anyway, I just feel more investigating needs to be done to make a
decision whether "yea" or "nay" on the subject. Maybe Bob will someday
have a little crumb analyzed for curiousities sake or someone will make
another find well outside of the known strewn field.

Respectfully,
Dave
Received on Tue 27 Feb 2007 11:48:56 AM PST