[meteorite-list] BCC "Meteorites" [was Milestones] PLEASE READ

From: S. Ray DeRusse <srd_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue Nov 23 09:30:30 2004
Message-ID: <41A49B01.8060509_at_ispwest.com>

Matteo;

We think your implying that we fabricated any email from Dirk Ross is
preposterous and absurd. We have no reason to fabricate analytical data,
emails or anything from anyone for that matter. I suppose you think we
fabricated the email below from Dr. Oliver Manuel to Bill Cutler in
which he agrees with us and welcomes some measure of controls on rogue
scientists? Is that what you think? We realized the level of absurdity
from you and many others when you endlessly debated whether a meteorite
fall is hot to the touch back in 2002. You guys endlessly debated this
issue and some trained scientists even weighed in on the issue but only
served to cloud it. Since ya'll never settled it let me tell you the
heat generated by a meteorite fall is proportional to the metal content.
That is to say the higher the metal content the hotter to the
touch.....duh. That means that stony meteorites will only be warm to the
touch whereas iron-nickel meteorites will be hot. Good luck and stop
being so absurd and preposterous.


 From Dr. Oliver Manuel;

Thanks, Bill, for the message.

I wish NASA's new policy might correct the problem.
Science rests on one of the oldest spiritual truths, e.g. from the
Upanishads, "Truth is victorious, never untruth."
It appears NASA officials mistakenly believed for decades that good
PR (public relations) is more important than truth.
NASA held the purse strings and misconduct from NASA spread into
peripheral organizations.

For example, how much NASA money, how many pages of MAPS and GCA, and
how many hours of Lunar Science Conference time has been devoted to
questionable but flashy discoveries like AN ALPHABET OF NEONS (Ne-A,
Ne-B, Ne-C, Ne-D, Ne-E, etc.), SUPER-HEAVY ELEMENTS, INTERSTELLAR
DIAMONDS, STAR DUST, etc. while more mundane explanations (MASS
FRACTIONATION, LOCAL ELEMENT SYNTHESIS, etc.) were ignored and/or
excluded from publication?

What is the result?

1. NASA - the world's premier space agency - failed to appreciate
that samples from the Apollo mission clearly revealed severe mass
separation in the Sun. There is little doubt about this conclusion.
See "Composition of the Solar Interior: Information from Isotope
Ratios"

         http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2002/soho-gong2002.pdf
         http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2002/soho-gong2002.ps

2. NASA - the world's premier space agency - failed to appreciate
that the Galileo probe into the atmosphere of Jupiter confirmed that
material there is unlike that in the Sun. See Ken Windler's report
on "strange" xenon isotopes in Jupiter.

          http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2001/windleranalysis.pdf

In 1983 we noted that the Galileo mission to Jupiter would find
"strange" xenon there, if we were correct in concluding that the Sun
is iron-rich from the Apollo mission to the Moon ["Solar abundance of
the elements", Meteoritics 18, 209-222].

NASA's engineering has been great, but its science has been a dismal
failure. Unfortunately, scientific journals share some of the blame.

With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel


McomeMeteorite Meteorite wrote:

> I doubt many Dirk Ross write this....
>
>
>
>> From: "S. Ray DeRusse" <srd_at_ispwest.com>
>> To: geoking_at_notkin.net
>> CC: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BCC "Meteorites" [was Milestones] PLEASE
>> READ
>> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:20:16 -0600
>>
>> Greetings List;
>>
>> I would like respond to Mr. Notkin. Mr. Notkin you prove that if
>> you wnat to get your facts straight you have to go to the source. Yes
>> we did file a lawsuit sometime back against numerous individuals when
>> we discovered they interfering with some others we were working with
>> on the meteorite project. Its a well known fact that certain
>> individuals have been operating against us.
>> You obviously were lied to by your friend we sued. WE filed a
>> motion to dismiss the lawsuit after two of the defendants agreed to
>> complete their contracts with us. WE did it, no Judge dismissed
>> anything. We filed a motion to dismiss without prejudice that means we
>> can go back at anytime. Do you understand that? We instructed the
>> Assistant Attorney General to draft it up, we signed it and filed it
>> once two of the defendants came forward to spill the beans. We that
>> means us Mr. Notkin.
>> Now as far the samples, and being told nicely about anything.
>> First of all if the samples were not authentic why would UT try to
>> steal the ones that were in left in the lab with them? It was not
>> until we blew the whistle on them that this controversy began to get
>> out of hand. If you think that all scientists are honest and do not
>> lie, cheat, and steal, having same, similar or different motives, Mr.
>> Notkin I have news for you, you too are in living world that does not
>> exist. I would hope that you know the difference between a
>> typographical error and an actual misspelling, but for some people,
>> thinking on their own is a lot of work. Good luck Mr. Notkin and I
>> really mean that.
>>
>> Here's an entirely differenct viewpoint from Dirk Ross
>>
>> Dear Mr. DeRusse,
>> I have been doing research since 1980. But, my last
>> research was last year at Yamaguchi University in
>> Japan.
>> I have read most of your writings on the internet.
>> You certainly are an educated person. I can
>> understand your wish for students and scientists to
>> think "outside" of the box. I agree with you on this
>> point. I always ask and demand my students to think
>> independently so that science can advance what is
>> known.
>> I apologize for my initial judgement about you
>> before knowing more about the whole story. Keep up
>> your search for fact. About truth, I leave that for
>> God. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
>> http://my.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> S. Ray DeRusse and Bill Cutler
>> www.bccmeteorites.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Notkin wrote:
>>
>>> <x-rich><fixed>Jonathan posted:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm back on the list. What is BCC meteorites about? I have heard a
>>>> lot about it and read their site but I still don't understand. Odd.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Jonathan and Fellow Listees:
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan, yes you are absolutely right. It is very "odd" and nobody
>>> else understands their site either because their site is nonsense.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like all my fellow List members to be made aware of something
>>> important: These BCC "Meteorites" characters filed an actual lawsuit
>>> against a number of prominent, respected and very well-liked senior
>>> meteoriticists here in the U.S (one of whom is a personal friend of
>>> mine). The suit was -- of course -- thrown out by the judge for being
>>> utterly frivolous. It's just too bad these clowns weren't heavily
>>> fined for wasting court time.
>>>
>>>
>>> BCC "Meteorites" seems to believe that there's some kind of
>>> high-level conspiracy/cover-up going on between NASA and major
>>> meteoritical institutions -- all because BCC "Meteorites" have been
>>> told (nicely and repeatedly) that the junk items they dig out of
>>> their bog, or whatever, in Texas are not actually fossilized alien
>>> brains, UFO warp core spare parts, Lunar meteorites, Dick Tracy wrist
>>> watch radios, etc., but just plain old dull terrestrial rocks. I
>>> think we all enjoy a good eccentric, and the whole thing would have
>>> been somewhat amusing in a "Benny Hill" sort of way if these guys
>>> hadn't been really nasty to some really nice people during their
>>> imaginary scientific journey.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have our squabbles on the List from time to time, but we are all
>>> united in our interest in the SCIENCE of meteoritics. The
>>> technobabble/gobbledygook pseudo-science offered up on the BCC
>>> "Meteorites" website -- and written, I might add, in appalling
>>> elementary school English so laden with spelling errors and
>>> grammatical mistakes that you couldn't follow their argument even if
>>> it *were* sound -- should not be allowed promotion here on the
>>> Meteorite List. Novice collectors, still learning about meteorites,
>>> might be hoodwinked into believing some of the fatuous claims that
>>> are made on the BCC website.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I strongly suggest that we -- as a community -- block the email
>>> addresses of these guys DeRusse and Cutler immediately and
>>> permanently. They just want attention, and the best way to eradicate
>>> this kind of fake science rubbish is to ignore the perpetrators
>>> entirely. They'll likely get bored and wander off to some UFO
>>> conspiracy theory/Creationist mailing list of which -- unfortunately
>>> -- there are probably several. A request from a few of you to List
>>> Moderator Art Jones ( listman_at_meteoritecentral.com ) to have them
>>> removed from the List wouldn't hurt either.
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, and BTW, if you look at the first photo on their website, the guy
>>> with the white gloves looks like "Dr. No." : )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not at all respectfully,
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoff Notkin
>>>
>>> Science writer interested in actual science and real
>>> meteorites</fixed></x-rich>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Ricerche online pi? semplici e veloci con MSN Toolbar!
> http://toolbar.msn.it/
>
>
Received on Wed 24 Nov 2004 09:30:25 AM PST