[meteorite-list] Re: Fwd: Re: Question for seller -- Item #2175659927

From: Steve Schoner <steve_schoner_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:25:42 2004
Message-ID: <20030522025611.9669.qmail_at_web12702.mail.yahoo.com>

In thinking about this problem, one IMCA member
mentioned that specimens sent in for ID, after being
proven to be a meteorite, should have a physical
description of weight and size with a photo of the
piece attached.

In fact I am thinking of using a standard photo setup
with a prepaired descriptive label for the true
metorite specimen with a shot of the specimen with a
measuring scale showing the description, specimen and
measuring scale in one photo shot.

A confirmation copy would be sent to the person who
has found a true meteorite with a disclaimer stating
that ONLY the specimen submitted was determined to be
an actual meteorite... and that NO other samples of
the said specimen are to be sold using our Certificate
of Authenticity without similar verification.

IMCA members should seriously consider this, and draft
a standard for photos that will be recognized by us.

They should be arranged like this

Top of picture. Specimen with scale below it.

Bottom of picture, a description of the specimen, and
the verification that it is a meteorite. And in this
line there should be a disclaimer that states that no
other specimens other than the one shown is to be sold
as a meteorite unless similarly verified by the one
making the determination.

The above scheme would apply to new and old meteorite
finds, where we as IMCA members determine that the
rock in question is a meteorite. And in addition to
this we must make it clear that our determination
applies ONLY to that specimen and no others.

They are not to use a "COA" in a blanket manner to
cover any or all similar finds made by them.

This should set the record straight with regards to
abusing our verifications on ebay sales.

Steve Schoner
http://www.geocities.com/meteorite_identification



--- Steve Schoner <steve_schoner_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Very well said, and I was thinking along the same
> lines, but had some difficulty (due to my recent
> hospital stay) coming up with the right words.
>
> What I have done is not to return any specimens that
> I
> recieve. I state clearly that the pieces sent are,
> or
> are not meteorites via e-mail.
>
> Out of the thousands that I have recieved, only
> three
> turned out to be meteorites.
>
> I will from this time forward, catalog the extremely
> rare legit meteorite samples with the names and
> addresses of the senders. And in communcation with
> the senders have the physical description of the
> piece
> that I recieved, and or a photograph of it returned
> with my reply.
>
> Those deemed not to be meteorites will be kept for
> no
> less than six months then discarded. But the
> meteorites retained will be kept with the
> information,
> and the recommendations for further testing.
>
> One very astute dealer that I know reminded me that
> I
> should never give out identification labels without
> having filled them out fully, listing the specimen
> weight and description.
>
> This would minimize the label being used for
> something
> that is not a meteorite, putting the person that
> initially made the label at risk.
>
> But with regards to the auction in question.... I
> have
> never seen a Canyon Diablo so obviously off such as
> this one.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2175659927
>
> Something is very strange in this picture.
>
> Like a Canyon Diablo meteorite with papers of
> authenticity, but seeing an obvious slag instead.
> Just look at the pictures of the pieces...
>
> Looks like a duck...
>
> Walks like a duck...
>
> Is a...
>
> Steve Schoner/AMS
> http://www.geocities.com/meteorite_identification
>
>
> --- LITIG8NSHARK_at_aol.com wrote:
> > Good afternoon Folks,
> >
> > As Steve rightly alludes to, any of us who provide
> > written analysis findings
> > or, for that matter, certificates of authenticity,
> > run the risk that these
> > documents may be used either negligently or
> > fraudulently by a holder of the
> > document down the line.
> >
> > Unfortunately, in the present circumstance, the
> > entire document is not
> > photographed for display. We just don't know
> > whether it describes the
> > specimen which was examined and which the document
> > purports to authenticate.
> >
> >
> > Anyone wishing to perpetrate a fraud can take a
> > valid analysis document or
> > COA and then pair it with a meteorwrong. Another
> > somewhat less nefarious
> > situation might arise when only one or two samples
> > out of a group are
> > submitted for authentication and the holder then
> > either wrongly presumes, or
> > in an attempt to deceive, holds out the document
> as
> > applying to an entire
> > group of specimens.
> >
> > It follows that any analysis document or COA must,
> > with specificity, describe
> > the specimen analyzed, and at minimum include its
> > macroscopic physical
> > characteristics such as mass and dimensions. An
> > additional safety measure
> > for the producer of the document would be to
> > incorporate a photo or photos of
> > the specimen in the document.
> >
> > Failure to take these basic precautions
> potentially
> > leaves one open to
> > questions, allegations and a possible civil suit
> > (winnable or not) that
> > ultimately will impact the producer of the
> document.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > In a message dated 5/21/2003 4:17:37 PM Eastern
> > Daylight Time,
> > steve_schoner_at_yahoo.com writes:
> >
> > > It alarming to me, as it uses a letter from an
> > > standing IMCA member to "authenticate" items
> that
> > are
> > > clearly, from the photos shown, NOT Canyon
> Diablo
> > > meteorites. The seller even posts the
> > authentication
> > > letter in the auction picture pages.
> >
> >
>
>
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Received on Wed 21 May 2003 10:56:11 PM PDT