[meteorite-list] AD - Not All Lunar Meteorites Are Equal

From: Graham Ensor <graham.ensor_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 15:08:44 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJkn+kaqixeJmzZ5q8hBFYi-An7mWgrENhq+LnMhPGtvuHJJGg_at_mail.gmail.com>

Interesting if true David but in 20 years of collecting I've come across
this scenario many times where "authorities" and people new to meteorites
think they have unique material...always it has turned out to be wrong once
the respected scientists who regularly work on meteorites get
involved....good luck though...always here to answer questions if
possible....be careful.

On 8 Sep 2017 09:54, "Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list" <
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

> Then your guy is smoking some really good weed.:)
>
> These Chinese crack me up.
>
> Michael Farmer
>
> > On Sep 7, 2017, at 2:02 PM, David Tann <dbtann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Mike, I didn't make it clear, a syndrome I suppose when you try to type
> a quick email on a crowded commuter train in the peak hours of the morning.
> >
> > I'm London based, new to meteorites collection as you would have
> gathered. This reliable source of mine in China has around 40kg Nantan
> amongst a few of his private collector friends. The rest of the 9.5 tons he
> claims were either with Chinese authorities (museums, unis and government
> run parks) or have been secretly traded abroad particularly in around 1985.
> >
> > The much bigger thing however is his claim of a massive amount of non
> magmatic meteorites embedded and intertwined in stones, even I know that
> would be something really big if proven genuine. They reckon, with
> archeologists and geologists' help, those meteorites were from Mars and
> crushed to earth 65m years ago! Needless to say, if this was true it would
> be something so astonishing that no one would have even dreamed of! The guy
> told me they spent over ?1m to protect the secret site and transported the
> massive discovery to a private place in Beijing. They also used small
> samples of these as "medical stones" in treating some rare disease and
> apparently it worked!
> >
> > The reason I say he is reliable is that he is introduced to me by my
> best friend in China who is at the vice ministerial level, he would not
> introduce anyone doggy to me as a friend that's for sure. The guy himself
> also has other very high level connections. But of course the only sure way
> is to independently verify things, hence my approaching you guys in the
> first place.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 7 Sep 2017, at 14:50, Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Are you joking? There are tons upon tons of Nantan. I've sold nearly a
> half a ton.
> >> I have a 92 kilo one sitting in Beijing and much more sitting in Tucson.
> >>
> >> Michael Farmer
> >>
> >>> On Sep 7, 2017, at 1:13 AM, David Tann <dbtann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Mike, I'd go even further in saying sadly 99% of the
> "meteorites" circulating freely in and from China are terrestrial rocks!
> The real Nantan meteorites in private collection are extremely rare, a
> total of around 40 kg. There is also a rarer type of meteorites intertwined
> with and inserted into earth rocks indicating high impact
> crushing/explosion. I'm happy to be proven wrong but as I said I have
> reasonable cause to believe my source to be reliable and genuine, although
> it's going to take me sometime to completely verify and document both
> types. I would naturally like to have the samples tested. I was hoping you
> guys would be able to test and analyse the composition of the samples for
> me, but I'll probably approach the Natural History Museum.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On 6 Sep 2017, at 20:47, Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> David. Sorry but I do mineral shows in china. Everyone has a nice
> stamped paper from one Chinese government source or another. Actually your
> piece certainly looks like Nantan meteorite. Sadly Nantan is nearly
> worthless.
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Farmer
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 11:55 AM, David Tann <dbtann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, Mike & Adam, for your valuable comments which I fully
> understand and much appreciate. Fake meteorites and scandalous traders were
> indeed acknowledged as a big problem in China, much like elsewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do however have reasonable confidence in the authenticity of the
> meteorites as they were from no ordinary tom dick and harry but a trusted
> and reliable source with high level connections in China; and they had been
> assessed by professionals and academic experts from the Chinese Academy of
> Sciences as genuine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, I'd like to have these and a great deal more independently
> tested and verified in the UK. Could you advise on how to go about that
> please?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you in advance, your help is much appreciated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 6 Sep 2017, at 16:52, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> People are suckers and if they want to buy crap then let them. In
> china most people want cheap. Well real good meteorites aren't cheap. So
> they buy fakes and are happy with low prices.
> >>>>>> Michael Farmer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 9:46 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It reminds me of the China Syndrome when hundreds of terrestrial
> stones were sold to collectors as meteorites on eBay. Anything that was
> dark and rounded including iron ore was sold to unsuspecting collectors as
> meteorites fleecing them out of thousands of dollars. Some of them even
> included old looking collection ID cards.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Link to China Syndrome:
> >>>>>>> http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&
> id=26&Itemid=114
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It was just a matter of time before fraud spread into all sectors
> of meteorite collecting. First it affected irons, then Pallasites, then
> falls, then Martians and now Lunar material. The worst part is some dealers
> are using the IMCA's good name to distribute untested, unproven and in some
> cases fake material completely bypassing protections put in place by
> following Meteoritical Society protocols which IMCA members are supposed to
> adhere to.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Adam
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 9/6/2017 7:03 AM, Michael Farmer wrote:
> >>>>>>>> That's worth about $50
> >>>>>>>> Michael Farmer
> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2017, at 1:36 AM, David Tann <dbtann at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Gents,
> >>>>>>>>> <image1.JPG>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This 2800g IAB Nantan Meteorite was discovered in 1958 in
> Nantan, Guanxi, Southwest China. The fall was observed and clearly recorded
> in Chinese historical literature, it happened on 7 June 1516 over an 8 km
> length of area. Anyone interested please get in touch.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>> 07771888566
> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5 Sep 2017, at 17:54, Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I agree fully. Great time to buy.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michael Farmer
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:31 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Just like Martians were a few years ago when the self-pairing
> and piggy-backing reached an all time high at around 2012/NWA 7000. And
> before that, it was falls when some less than honest dealers were
> substituting NWA material in place of the real thing. I remember Claxton,
> which I acquired from Michael Blood later selling for less than a $100.00
> gram due to a lack in collector confidence.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> No meteorite is immune from less than honest business
> practices. Many
> >>>>>>>>>>> collectors will not touch anything that post dates 2012 and
> are very leery of falls.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On the bright side. There is no better time to purchase
> genuine lunar material with good provenance and laboratory confirmation
> since the price is sure to go up just like the Martians that were dumped a
> few years ago.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Adam
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/5/2017 8:30 AM, Michael Farmer wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You are pissing in the wind. Lunars are about worthless now.
> Moroccans have dropped the price to less than that of eucrites. I want just
> in Morocco. I saw kilos and kilos is lunar.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Farmer
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Received on Fri 08 Sep 2017 10:08:44 AM PDT