[meteorite-list] Confusing & Misleading - (Was: AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan...............)

From: Thunder Stone <stanleygregr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:22:27 -0700
Message-ID: <DUB0-P2-EAS561A2FEC0C7C600598E3B6D21B0_at_phx.gbl>

I agree, a 'fall' cannot be a hammer, only a single stone can be, so it should always be a 'hammer stone'
- GregS

-----Original Message-----

From: Meteorite-Hunting.com
Sent: 15 May 2012 18:15:20 GMT
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Confusing & Misleading - (Was: AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan...............)

Let's cut through the semantics. No amount of semantics will change the
fact that the phrase "Hammer Fall" is confusing and misleading.

The nomenclature is simple.

Hammer = Correct
Hammer Fall = Misleading, confusing, and an incorrect use of the term.

It's really not that complicated.

Regards,
Eric






On 5/14/2012 10:05 PM, Shawn Alan wrote:
> I am going to say my words and leave it at that on this Hammer Fall Stone Fall Hammer man made hitting meteorite definition....
>
> As for the Hammer Stone Fall phase, I guess I did morph it by accident from Michael Bloods phase which is Hammer Fall, for some reason I thought he used Hammer Stone Fall but I checked and its worded as Hammer Fall when a stone from the fall hits a man made object. The Sutter's Mill meteorite fall is a Hammer Fall because one of the stones from that fall hit a man made object. That stone that hit the man made object is called a Hammer Stone, and I can see the confusion and thats why I changed it to Hammer Fall. So by Michael's definition when a meteorite hits a man made object that meteorite fall is a METEORITE HAMMER FALL.
>
> Documented Hammer Falls
> Sylacauge
> Barbotan
> L Aigle
> Weston
> Park Forest
> Paltusk
> Barwell
> and now Sutter's Mill
>
> From Micheal's website
>
> 1). "Hammer" - any
> individual which is part of a hammer
> fall in which one or more of the
> individuals struck an
> artifact, animal or human.....
> Most of us hammer heads, however,
> will collect
> what is available from any hammer fall, though, of course,
> hammer stones, themselves,
> will be most valued."
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBay Store
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man
> killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City, Barwell& more meteorites ending on
> eBay soon!
> eric at meteoritesusa.com eric
> at meteoritesusa.com
> Mon May 14 13:46:01 EDT 2012
> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites ending on eBay soon!
> * Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of
> the Day
> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
> Hi All,
>
> The use of the word "Hammer" when
> referencing/advertising meteorites,
> should only be used to describe an
> actual stone which hit an artifact
> (man made object).
>
> Using the word
> "Hammer" or Hammer Fall" in advertisements to sell stones
> that are not
> actual Hammer-Stones is misleading and confusing,
> especially to new
> collectors. It can cause much more confusion later
> when those pieces are
> resold to other meteorite collectors because an
> inexperienced collector may
> say it is a fragment of a hammer stone, not
> understanding the difference
> between the terms "hammer stone" and
> "hammer fall".
>
> An easy remedy
> for this, is to NEVER use the words "Hammer Fall" in
> advertisements. It's
> misleading, and confusing. Period.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> On 5/14/2012 10:10 AM, Anita Westlake wrote:
>
>> Thanks right, Steve. I own a quarter of a slice from the core from THE
>> meteorite that hit Mrs. Hodges.
>> There is a guy on this list who continues to call his
> non-hammer Hodges
>
>> meteorite The Sylacauga stone even after
> he was reported to the I.M.C.A. for
>
>> misleading the public.
> For that reason alone, I will never buy anything from
>
>> him.
> Yes, it is part of the Sylacauga fall, but not the house-hitter. I would
>
>> venture to guess that most of the public would not know the
> difference, and
>
>> that's what he's counting on!
>> Anita
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "meteorhntr at
> aol.com"<meteorhntr at
> aol.com>
>
>> To: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>;
>
>> meteorite-list-bounces
> at meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>
>
>> Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist<meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>> Sent: Mon, May 14, 2012
> 11:30:10 AM
>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>> Barbotan man killer meteorite,
> LUCE', Forest City, Barwell& more meteorites
>
>> ending on
> eBay soon!
>
>> Mike and all,
>> I agree with you the marketing "Such and
> Such Hammer Fall" is very often
>
>> misleading and if such a
> term is ever used, I think there should be an obvious
>
>> express disclaimer that the piece being purchase is NOT from the one that
>> actually hit the object, unless of course there is
> documentation to prove that
>
>> it is from that specimen. I
> would think the F.T.C. would agree.
>
>> However, I do want to correct you on one thing Dr. King was able to secure a few
>> grams of THE Sylacaga hammer that hit Mrs. Hodges via a core
> sample taken from
>
>> it. His records showed it did NOT come
> from the Smithsonian's specimen but
>
>> rather the museum that
> held it back in the 1960's. This was only a few grams
>
>> total
> and was sold to the market back in 1999.
>
>> The provenance should be strong with those pieces, and that data should have
>> been passed on for the lucky few that have a piece.
> Personally I would think
>
>> they should have a very significant
> premium over the "Non-Hammer Syclaga"
>
>> pieces. A side note,
> due to the core shape, "full slices" of the core will be
>
>> coin shaped and part slices should have at least part of the edge in a arch.
>> Steve Arnold
>> Host of
> Meteorite Men
>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>
>
>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces
> at meteoritecentral.com
>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 22:39:54
>> To: Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>
>
>> Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist<meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>> Barbotan man
> killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
>
>> Barwell& more
> meteorites ending on eBay soon!
>
>> Except
> the sylacaga
>
>> Stone which hit the woman is actually in
> Alabama. The pieces of sylacaga in
>
>> collections are from the
> larger stone found later in a road. So actually none of
>
>> the
> private collections contain the woman hitting stone.
>
>> Otherwise having trouble following your post.
>> Michael Farmer
>> Sent
> from my iPhone
>
>> On May 13, 2012, at 10:36
> PM, Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Now thats
> some proof :) and a hammer stone I think would turn heads from the
>
>>> Sutter's Mill HAMMER STONE FALL. I bet when its said and
> done, there will be
>
>>> more of stones found on top of
> builds and roofs within the area the meteorite
>
>>> fell
> because of it fragmenting in the atmosphere, only time will tell. But for
>
>>> those of you that collect hammer stones or meteorite
> from HAMMER STONE FALLS the
>
>>> Sylacauge I would say is the
> king of all HAMMER STONE FALLS just for the fact
>
>>> two
> stone came from that fall, making one a hammer stone as apposed to Sutter's
>
>>> Mill HAMMER STONE FALL were there has been over 60
> individual stones and
>
>>> fragments found so far and more
> being documented. So in a since the probability
>
>>> of a
> hammer stone will be alot higher than from Sylacauge HAMMER STONE FALL.
>
>>> Shawn
> Alan
>
>>> IMCA 1633
>>> eBay store
>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>> http://www.meteoritefalls.com/
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dan Miller<dannyspl12 at
> gmail.com>
>
>>> To: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>
>
>>> Cc: Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>; meteoritelist meteoritelist
>
>>> <meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re:
> [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>>> Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites
>
>>> ending on eBay soon!
>>> List
>>> There is another hammer stone
> but the owner and her husband have not gone
>
>>> public yet.
> They will next week when she gets back home. This one embedded
>
>>> itself on her shed and she has the mark to prove it. I
> will have them contact
>
>>> Michael Gilmer and Peter J.
>>> On Sun,
> May 13, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com> wrote:
>
>>> Why does everyone keep putting hammer-stone in their descriptions? You do not
>>> have piece of the hammer-stone, so putting it in the
> auction title implies that
>
>>> you are selling a piece of
> the house hitting meteorite when you are not. Please
>
>>> correct the auction to inform the buyers that they are NOT buying a piece of the
>>> house hitting Sutter's Mill specimen.
>>>> Just because a single piece of this meteorite hit a
> house, does not mean every
>
>>>> gram of the meteorite
> found can be considered a "hammer". That is a scam to rip
>
>>>> people off.
>>>> People, this
> is why you MUST know and trust your seller. Greg Hupe and I have
>
>>>> already been contacted by several known scammers
> trying to buy pieces of our
>
>>>> meteorite. We are not
> responding. We put a premium price on the unquestionably
>
>>>> documented meteorite which hit the house, was seen
> on BBC live and is not
>
>>>> disputed by anyone. Don't be
> fooled by people selling you other material
>
>>>> coat-tailing our specimen. We kept record of every speck sold and can trace
>>>> them back to the buyers.
>>>> A meteorite of this rarity is likely to attract some unscrupulous sellers, know
>>>> your source!
>>>> Michael
> Farmer
>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On May 13, 2012, at 3:47 PM, Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Hello Listers,
>>>>> Thank you for taking a look at my post of
> meteorites
>
>>>>> I have for sale on eBay. Here is your
> chance to own some rare and historic
>
>>>>> meteorites.
> Please take a look and if you have any questions or OFFERS
>
>>>>> please email me and I?ll get back with you. Also
> if you are looking for
>
>>>>> bigger/smaller
> meteorites, let me know too. A meteorite is a meteorite, but
>
>>>>> a meteorite with history and a legacy, will
> always add aura to your
>
>>>>> meteorite collection and
> value.
>
>>>>> eBay
> store
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>>>> Featured Auctions
>>>>> MURRAY Ultra
> Rare CM2 Meteorite 70 Amino Acids Polyols SUGARS - ASU
>
>>>> Collection.
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057932082?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> SUTTER?S MILL Meteorite - Ultra Rare CA. USA CM
> Hammer Stone Fall-April 22,
>
>>>>> 2011
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251061801904?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> LUCE' meteorite - France 1768 very rare historic
> fall - 1st analyzed
>
>>>> meteorite!
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021512470?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> JILIN meteorite deemed as scientifically
> important& largest stony
>
>>>>> meteorite!
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021517495?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> BARBOTAN rare historic meteorite fall -1790
> France - Killed a Man!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057927992?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> LOS ANGELES 002 Martian/Mars meteorite 2nd USA
> Mars find!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261020758264?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> FOREST CITY meteorite 1890 historic fall -1st
> COURT CASE BATTLE!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057926098?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> BARWELL meteorite Christmas meteorite
> fall/shower UK 1965- Hammer Fall.
>
>>>>> NHM-UCLA
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261020753053?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> Pe?a Blanca Spring meteorite rare aubrite 1946
> fall
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251058811484?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> NAKHLA Martian/Mars meteorite - 1911 Fall-SUPER
> RARE! KING OF MARTIAN
>
>>>>> METEORITES
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021523522?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> NWA 2999 rare Angrite meteorite suggested from
> MERCURY!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057928942?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>> eBay Store
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>>>> http://www.meteoritefalls.com/
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the
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>
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> ________________________________
>
>
> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites ending on eBay soon!
> * Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of
> the Day
> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
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Received on Tue 15 May 2012 02:22:27 PM PDT