[meteorite-list] Confusing & Misleading - (Was: AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan...............)

From: Meteorite-Hunting.com <contact_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:13:54 -0700
Message-ID: <4FB29CE2.40101_at_meteorite-hunting.com>

Let's cut through the semantics. No amount of semantics will change the
fact that the phrase "Hammer Fall" is confusing and misleading.

The nomenclature is simple.

Hammer = Correct
Hammer Fall = Misleading, confusing, and an incorrect use of the term.

It's really not that complicated.

Regards,
Eric






On 5/14/2012 10:05 PM, Shawn Alan wrote:
> I am going to say my words and leave it at that on this Hammer Fall Stone Fall Hammer man made hitting meteorite definition....
>
> As for the Hammer Stone Fall phase, I guess I did morph it by accident from Michael Bloods phase which is Hammer Fall, for some reason I thought he used Hammer Stone Fall but I checked and its worded as Hammer Fall when a stone from the fall hits a man made object. The Sutter's Mill meteorite fall is a Hammer Fall because one of the stones from that fall hit a man made object. That stone that hit the man made object is called a Hammer Stone, and I can see the confusion and thats why I changed it to Hammer Fall. So by Michael's definition when a meteorite hits a man made object that meteorite fall is a METEORITE HAMMER FALL.
>
> Documented Hammer Falls
> Sylacauge
> Barbotan
> L Aigle
> Weston
> Park Forest
> Paltusk
> Barwell
> and now Sutter's Mill
>
> From Micheal's website
>
> 1). "Hammer" - any
> individual which is part of a hammer
> fall in which one or more of the
> individuals struck an
> artifact, animal or human.....
> Most of us hammer heads, however,
> will collect
> what is available from any hammer fall, though, of course,
> hammer stones, themselves,
> will be most valued."
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBay Store
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man
> killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City, Barwell& more meteorites ending on
> eBay soon!
> eric at meteoritesusa.com eric
> at meteoritesusa.com
> Mon May 14 13:46:01 EDT 2012
> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites ending on eBay soon!
> * Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of
> the Day
> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
> Hi All,
>
> The use of the word "Hammer" when
> referencing/advertising meteorites,
> should only be used to describe an
> actual stone which hit an artifact
> (man made object).
>
> Using the word
> "Hammer" or Hammer Fall" in advertisements to sell stones
> that are not
> actual Hammer-Stones is misleading and confusing,
> especially to new
> collectors. It can cause much more confusion later
> when those pieces are
> resold to other meteorite collectors because an
> inexperienced collector may
> say it is a fragment of a hammer stone, not
> understanding the difference
> between the terms "hammer stone" and
> "hammer fall".
>
> An easy remedy
> for this, is to NEVER use the words "Hammer Fall" in
> advertisements. It's
> misleading, and confusing. Period.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
>
> On 5/14/2012 10:10 AM, Anita Westlake wrote:
>
>> Thanks right, Steve. I own a quarter of a slice from the core from THE
>> meteorite that hit Mrs. Hodges.
>> There is a guy on this list who continues to call his
> non-hammer Hodges
>
>> meteorite The Sylacauga stone even after
> he was reported to the I.M.C.A. for
>
>> misleading the public.
> For that reason alone, I will never buy anything from
>
>> him.
> Yes, it is part of the Sylacauga fall, but not the house-hitter. I would
>
>> venture to guess that most of the public would not know the
> difference, and
>
>> that's what he's counting on!
>> Anita
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: "meteorhntr at
> aol.com"<meteorhntr at
> aol.com>
>
>> To: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>;
>
>> meteorite-list-bounces
> at meteoritecentral.com; Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>
>
>> Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist<meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>> Sent: Mon, May 14, 2012
> 11:30:10 AM
>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>> Barbotan man killer meteorite,
> LUCE', Forest City, Barwell& more meteorites
>
>> ending on
> eBay soon!
>
>> Mike and all,
>> I agree with you the marketing "Such and
> Such Hammer Fall" is very often
>
>> misleading and if such a
> term is ever used, I think there should be an obvious
>
>> express disclaimer that the piece being purchase is NOT from the one that
>> actually hit the object, unless of course there is
> documentation to prove that
>
>> it is from that specimen. I
> would think the F.T.C. would agree.
>
>> However, I do want to correct you on one thing Dr. King was able to secure a few
>> grams of THE Sylacaga hammer that hit Mrs. Hodges via a core
> sample taken from
>
>> it. His records showed it did NOT come
> from the Smithsonian's specimen but
>
>> rather the museum that
> held it back in the 1960's. This was only a few grams
>
>> total
> and was sold to the market back in 1999.
>
>> The provenance should be strong with those pieces, and that data should have
>> been passed on for the lucky few that have a piece.
> Personally I would think
>
>> they should have a very significant
> premium over the "Non-Hammer Syclaga"
>
>> pieces. A side note,
> due to the core shape, "full slices" of the core will be
>
>> coin shaped and part slices should have at least part of the edge in a arch.
>> Steve Arnold
>> Host of
> Meteorite Men
>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>
>
>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces
> at meteoritecentral.com
>
>> Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 22:39:54
>> To: Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>
>
>> Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist<meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list]
> AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>> Barbotan man
> killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
>
>> Barwell& more
> meteorites ending on eBay soon!
>
>> Except
> the sylacaga
>
>> Stone which hit the woman is actually in
> Alabama. The pieces of sylacaga in
>
>> collections are from the
> larger stone found later in a road. So actually none of
>
>> the
> private collections contain the woman hitting stone.
>
>> Otherwise having trouble following your post.
>> Michael Farmer
>> Sent
> from my iPhone
>
>> On May 13, 2012, at 10:36
> PM, Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Now thats
> some proof :) and a hammer stone I think would turn heads from the
>
>>> Sutter's Mill HAMMER STONE FALL. I bet when its said and
> done, there will be
>
>>> more of stones found on top of
> builds and roofs within the area the meteorite
>
>>> fell
> because of it fragmenting in the atmosphere, only time will tell. But for
>
>>> those of you that collect hammer stones or meteorite
> from HAMMER STONE FALLS the
>
>>> Sylacauge I would say is the
> king of all HAMMER STONE FALLS just for the fact
>
>>> two
> stone came from that fall, making one a hammer stone as apposed to Sutter's
>
>>> Mill HAMMER STONE FALL were there has been over 60
> individual stones and
>
>>> fragments found so far and more
> being documented. So in a since the probability
>
>>> of a
> hammer stone will be alot higher than from Sylacauge HAMMER STONE FALL.
>
>>> Shawn
> Alan
>
>>> IMCA 1633
>>> eBay store
>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>> http://www.meteoritefalls.com/
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dan Miller<dannyspl12 at
> gmail.com>
>
>>> To: Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com>
>
>>> Cc: Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com>; meteoritelist meteoritelist
>
>>> <meteorite-list at
> meteoritecentral.com>
>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re:
> [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002 Mars meteorite, NWA2999,
>
>>> Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites
>
>>> ending on eBay soon!
>>> List
>>> There is another hammer stone
> but the owner and her husband have not gone
>
>>> public yet.
> They will next week when she gets back home. This one embedded
>
>>> itself on her shed and she has the mark to prove it. I
> will have them contact
>
>>> Michael Gilmer and Peter J.
>>> On Sun,
> May 13, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Michael Farmer<mike at
> meteoriteguy.com> wrote:
>
>>> Why does everyone keep putting hammer-stone in their descriptions? You do not
>>> have piece of the hammer-stone, so putting it in the
> auction title implies that
>
>>> you are selling a piece of
> the house hitting meteorite when you are not. Please
>
>>> correct the auction to inform the buyers that they are NOT buying a piece of the
>>> house hitting Sutter's Mill specimen.
>>>> Just because a single piece of this meteorite hit a
> house, does not mean every
>
>>>> gram of the meteorite
> found can be considered a "hammer". That is a scam to rip
>
>>>> people off.
>>>> People, this
> is why you MUST know and trust your seller. Greg Hupe and I have
>
>>>> already been contacted by several known scammers
> trying to buy pieces of our
>
>>>> meteorite. We are not
> responding. We put a premium price on the unquestionably
>
>>>> documented meteorite which hit the house, was seen
> on BBC live and is not
>
>>>> disputed by anyone. Don't be
> fooled by people selling you other material
>
>>>> coat-tailing our specimen. We kept record of every speck sold and can trace
>>>> them back to the buyers.
>>>> A meteorite of this rarity is likely to attract some unscrupulous sellers, know
>>>> your source!
>>>> Michael
> Farmer
>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On May 13, 2012, at 3:47 PM, Shawn Alan<photophlow at
> yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Hello Listers,
>>>>> Thank you for taking a look at my post of
> meteorites
>
>>>>> I have for sale on eBay. Here is your
> chance to own some rare and historic
>
>>>>> meteorites.
> Please take a look and if you have any questions or OFFERS
>
>>>>> please email me and I?ll get back with you. Also
> if you are looking for
>
>>>>> bigger/smaller
> meteorites, let me know too. A meteorite is a meteorite, but
>
>>>>> a meteorite with history and a legacy, will
> always add aura to your
>
>>>>> meteorite collection and
> value.
>
>>>>> eBay
> store
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>>>> Featured Auctions
>>>>> MURRAY Ultra
> Rare CM2 Meteorite 70 Amino Acids Polyols SUGARS - ASU
>
>>>> Collection.
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057932082?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> SUTTER?S MILL Meteorite - Ultra Rare CA. USA CM
> Hammer Stone Fall-April 22,
>
>>>>> 2011
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251061801904?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> LUCE' meteorite - France 1768 very rare historic
> fall - 1st analyzed
>
>>>> meteorite!
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021512470?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> JILIN meteorite deemed as scientifically
> important& largest stony
>
>>>>> meteorite!
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021517495?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> BARBOTAN rare historic meteorite fall -1790
> France - Killed a Man!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057927992?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> LOS ANGELES 002 Martian/Mars meteorite 2nd USA
> Mars find!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261020758264?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> FOREST CITY meteorite 1890 historic fall -1st
> COURT CASE BATTLE!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057926098?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> BARWELL meteorite Christmas meteorite
> fall/shower UK 1965- Hammer Fall.
>
>>>>> NHM-UCLA
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261020753053?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> Pe?a Blanca Spring meteorite rare aubrite 1946
> fall
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251058811484?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> NAKHLA Martian/Mars meteorite - 1911 Fall-SUPER
> RARE! KING OF MARTIAN
>
>>>>> METEORITES
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261021523522?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> NWA 2999 rare Angrite meteorite suggested from
> MERCURY!
>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251057928942?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
>>>>> 9
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>> eBay Store
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ph0t0phl0w/m.html?
>>>>> http://www.meteoritefalls.com/
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the
> Archives at
>
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> ________________________________
>
>
> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] AD: MURRAY, LA002
> Mars meteorite, NWA2999, Barbotan man killer meteorite, LUCE', Forest City,
> Barwell& more meteorites ending on eBay soon!
> * Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of
> the Day
> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
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Received on Tue 15 May 2012 02:13:54 PM PDT