[meteorite-list] Ebay heads up - Tissint/Scarborough

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:48:23 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKBPJW_SHiw8sX82Z=UVcJraG5aqNPWuSqEjhNf6C6XRuV72TQ_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Don and List,

I don't think you have offended anyone because you do raise a valid
point about provenance that has been discussed at length previously on
this List. I think the majority of people on the List consider you
one of the good guys, so your input is always valued. I would just
like to add a few things to the discussion that are not always readily
apparent when talking about provenance.

Yes, provenance is extremely important in meteorites and many other
rare collectibles. Any time money is an issue, there will be scammers
and unethical sellers. That is an unfortunate fact and meteorites are
no different.

Provenance is more important for certain types and falls. For
example, very few collectors are concerned about the provenance of a
Campo del Cielo iron. For one thing, they are extremely common.
Secondly, they have a distinctive look that is hard to confuse. The
same thing can be said for Sikhote Alin individuals - very common and
very distinctive. Tatahouine diogenite is another good example -
quite common and hard to mistake for something else. The list of
meteorites that fall into this category of "common and distinctive"
numbers into the hundreds. In cases such as these, provenance is less
important as a tool to prove authenticity. Instead, provenance for
these meteorites is a matter of "family tree" importance for those who
like to know every step their common specimen has taken on it's road
to it's final collection buyer.

Where provenance is of the utmost importance is with very rare types
that can closely resemble a more-common type. Or, if a specimen is a
rare fall that happens to be a common petrologic type. Is that
dark-crusted chondrite a Chergach, or is it a Pultusk? It's very hard
for the majority of people to tell just by looking at the outside of
the stone. Is a given micromount really a piece of Weston, or is it a
piece of something more common (and far less valuable) like NWA 4526?
In cases such as these, provenance is very important.

I would hope that any dealer worth their salt, IMCA or not, would keep
extensive records on where they acquire their specimens. I do, and I
know many dealers who have files packed with information on where they
bought every specimen, how much they paid for it, etc.

However, some of this information should not be freely shared in a
public forum for all eyes to see. Does a customer buying a Weston
have a right to know where it came from? Yes, they do. Do rival
dealers and curious onlookers with no intention of buying have that
same right? In my opinion, no they do not.

Many dealers take great pains to cultivate long-standing relationships
with other dealers, wholesalers, and hunters. And for many dealers,
selling meteorites is how they put food on the table, buy their
medicine, pay their bills, and make a living. And as we all know,
unfortunately, there is some petty back-stabbing behavior in the
meteorite world. Some dealers, who shall remain unnamed, are
chicken$hit and like nothing better than to stir up drama and talk
smack behind others' backs - in an effort to defame another dealer,
hurt their business, and lure away their customers. It happens.

I can think of a very well-known and respected meteorite person who
talks smack about me behind my back, but is too chicken to say those
things to my face. Why does he say such things? (besides being
mentally ill?) Because he doesn't like how I sell my micromounts and
considers me a "bottom feeder" - not because I have ever engaged in
any unethical practices, which I have not. If I exposed to the
public all of my sources for material, this person would waste no time
badmouthing me to all of my sources - possibly hurting my trading and
possibly hurting my trading partners because those partners dare to do
business with me. It is because of people like that, that I do not
freely advertise on my website where I get all of my material. I
wouldn't want my sources to become targets of this nutjob's ire simply
because they sell to me.

Having said that, if any customer of mine asks where I acquired a
given specimen, I will freely tell that person and provide ID cards
from my source and other provenance information. My track record in
that regard speaks for itself.

Anyone with photoshop and a printer can produce an official-looking
COA or ID card. A man (or woman's) word is everything in this
business and that means much more than a COA or ID card that is not
worth the paper it is printed on. My word has always been solid and
truthful, and I have scores of loyal customers who know that.

I don't have an IMCA number and I don't have major institutions on my
speed-dial list. But I do purchase from some sources who do have
these things. And I will reveal those sources to any paying customer.
 I will NOT reveal those sources to Google, the non-buying public at
large, or petty ex-rental car agents who feel it necessary to
bad-mouth auction lots during a public auction because they speak from
ignorance and a desire to hurt another dealer who won't play by their
arbitrary rules that are arbitrarily applied to some and not others.

The point I am getting at is this - just because a dealer doesn't
freely trumpet their sources for the entire world to see does not mean
that dealer's specimens are any less genuine or solid in provenance
than another dealer who broadcasts where they acquire every last crumb
in their inventory.

And one last point - comparing buying a car to buying a meteorite is
not a valid comparison. We have no choice but to buy a car from a
retailer, who all price their wares in lockstep with each other. If
you ask for a car dealer's source, you cannot then leapfrog that
dealer and purchase the car directly from his source - because the
source is a factory in Detroit or Japan that does not sell to the
public. If I tell a curious party where I acquired my material, they
can drop me and go straight to that source dealer - and I lose a sale
and there is less food on my table or my grandson doesn't get a
birthday gift.

A word of advice for collectors considering where to get their
material - don't look for a graphic logo with a number, or an online
catalog that lists in great detail where every last crumb came from.
Buy from a dealer with a spotless reputation of authenticity - if that
dealer has a numbered-logo, fine. If that dealer does not, that does
not mean the specimen is any less authentic. The best test of a
dealer's reputation is Art's Met-List. Search the archives - the good
dealers and bad dealers will be revealed in the history of the List.

Best regards,

MikeG

-- 
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Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber
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On 2/14/12, Don Merchant <dmerchan at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> Sorry again list. I was so rattled I forgot to sign off with my name!
> Sincerely
> Don Merchant
>
> Hi Count and Kudos' to you! You bring up some very real and serious points.
> I hope I don't upset anyone with this post. I have this huge pet peeve of
> those that sell meteorites without listing, mentioning and or providing a
> Provenance on meteorites whether it be on eBay or their Websites.You don't
> go out and purchase a used car without asking for a car fax or asking
> questions before purchasing it, and so the same should also be done when
> interested in purchasing a meteorite from anyone, be it eBay or Dealer
> Website or any other form of Auctions. I refuse to purchase any meteorite
> from anyone without this provenance or at the least asking the Seller on a
> meteorites history. As I have said before, meteorites don't grow on trees!
> They arrived in the Sellers possession from somewhere and or from someone
> other then those meteorites that have been found. Those meteorites found
> would most likely and better have been sent to a lab for testing and
> verification so as to start some form of provenance. I highly recommend to
> ALL Sellers/Collectors and Dealers to inquire the validity of meteorites
> they intend to purchase. SAVE this provenance label or paper of history so
> the next future buyer can have a copy of it for his or her records. I find
> it sloppy professionalism to those who can not provide provenance time and
> time again on meteorites they sell. Though an ID card helps...the truth is
> anyone can make up an ID card. A provenance can be traced to the former
> owner and more questions can then be brought up on the specimens validity.
> Consider it a blood line so to speak or family tree! Hope I did not offend
> anyone with my views. I am just trying to protect all of you and your
> collections including mine by enacting professional organized record keeping
> practices.
> Sincerely
> Don Merchant
>
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Received on Tue 14 Feb 2012 05:48:23 PM PST