[meteorite-list] Ebay heads up - Tissint/Scarborough

From: Don Merchant <dmerchan_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:22:08 -0500
Message-ID: <000301cceb34$cd2ce500$6501a8c0_at_donaldmerchant>

Hi Count and Kudos' to you! You bring up some very real and serious points.
I hope I don't upset anyone with this post. I have this huge pet peeve of
those that sell meteorites without listing, mentioning and or providing a
Provenance on meteorites whether it be on eBay or their Websites.You don't
go out and purchase a used car without asking for a car fax or asking
questions before purchasing it, and so the same should also be done when
interested in purchasing a meteorite from anyone, be it eBay or Dealer
Website or any other form of Auctions. I refuse to purchase any meteorite
from anyone without this provenance or at the lease asking the Seller on a
meteorites history. As I have said before, meteorites don't grow on trees!
They arrived in the Sellers possession from somewhere and or from someone
other then those meteorites that have been found. Those meteorites found
would most likely and better have been sent to a lab for testing and
verification so as to start some form of provenance. I highly recommend to
ALL Sellers/Collectors and Dealers to inquire the validity of meteorites
they intend to purchase. SAVE this provenance label or paper of history so
the next future buyer can have a copy of it for his or her records. I find
it sloppy professionalism to those who can not provide provenance time and
time again on meteorites they sell. Though an ID card helps...the truth is
anyone can make up an ID card. A provenance can be traced to the former
owner and more questions can then be brought up on the specimens validity.
Consider it a blood line so to speak or family tree! Hope I did not offend
anyone with my views. I am just trying to protect all of you and your
collections including mine by enacting professional organized record keeping
practices.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Count Deiro" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: "jason utas" <jasonutas at gmail.com>; "Meteorite-list"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay heads up - Tissint/Scarborough


> List,
>
> Like I posted before. I am sick of this self appointed judge and jury BS.
> I, and Dr. Ted Bunch, were victims of this type of witch hunt last year
> and when all allegations of misconduct were thoroughly proven to be
> false....no apology from anyone was forthcoming.
>
> Scarborough, as I posted before, has dozens of experienced collectors and
> dealers worldwide, many far more knowledgeable than our self appointed
> inquisitioner, bidding and buying his offerings apparently without
> complaint... including the rock in question. He has a 100% feedback rating
> and offers a full money back guarantee. I don't know the validity of the
> charges made against this dealer in the past, but if they are as bogus as
> the ones that slandered me, I don't believe they belong on this site in
> the manner they are being presented...which is guilty before proven
> innocent, and they don't belong on this List.
>
> Now, I have done the obvious and contacted Scarborough, whom I have never
> met, and informed him of these allegations and asked if he would be
> interested in contesting them by providing provenance of the piece in
> question. If, he responds, I will share what he represents to all. Which
> is what should have ben done before these actionable slanders continue.
>
> I will make an admission here in an attempt to prove my point. I once was
> sued for slander per se and successfully defended my simple remark. It
> cost me thousands to defend myself and in the end I found that my, I
> thought innocent remark, had come within one vote of an eight person jury
> of finding me guilty. I learned then to keep my mouth shut unless willing
> to back it up with incontrovertible evidence and a deep pocket book.
>
> Finally, If members continue to make allegations and take the risk of suit
> against us all, that's right...ask your attorney about IMCA's liability in
> promoting slanderous statements, at least when allegations are proven
> bogus and/or driven by personal vindictiveness, see that an abject apology
> is issued. I'm still waiting for mine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Count Deiro
> IMCA 3536
>
> ----Original Message-----
>>From: jason utas <jasonutas at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Feb 14, 2012 2:29 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay heads up - Tissint/Scarborough
>>
>>This went out to the IMCA list a day or so ago; since then, a little
>>more information has come to light -- please see below.
>>-----
>>Hello All,
>>As you may or may not know, a former IMCA member named John Bryan
>>Scarborough was found to be selling misrepresented material from at
>>least four different falls/finds (Mifflin, Ash Creek, Zunhua, and
>>Deport).
>>
>>He recently changed his ebay username to lonestar*meteorites, and is
>>selling the following specimen of "Tissint."
>>
>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/METEORITE-NEW-TISSINT-MARS-SHERGOTTITE-0-49g-100-CRUSTED-WITNESSED-7-18-2011-/280822837261?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416258700d#ht_500wt_1085
>>
>>I've seen a significant portion of the stones from this fall, and know
>>for a fact that stones covered entirely in primary fusion crust are
>>extraordinarily rare, if not completely absent, from recovered finds.
>>Even pieces that have some primary fusion crust typically do not
>>resemble this above stone:
>>
>>http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/tata_0-81-1.jpg
>>
>>http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=360869963936731&set=o.162786720415331&type=1&theater
>>
>>As you can see, the crust is thin enough to discern visible olivine
>>phenocrysts on the fragment showing primary crust, and all of the
>>other stones pictured are covered in glossy secondary crust that
>>looks rather different from the specimen on ebay.
>>
>>The ebay auction linked to above *may* be of a real piece of Tissint,
>>but I am highly suspicious of it based on its appearance. The stone
>>pictured on ebay does not look like any of those stones, and instead
>>looks like a small complete Camel Donga.
>>
>>http://www.rocksonfire.com/new_itempage-camel%20donga57.htm
>>
>>Scarborough is offering another piece of Tissint on ebay, accompanied
>>by photographs that make it appear to be a specimen purchased from
>>Darryl Pitt:
>>
>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/METEORITE-NEW-TISSINT-MARS-SHERGOTTITE-0-662-GRAMS-WITNESSED-FALL-7-18-2011-/280822579982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416254830e#ht_500wt_1085
>>
>>Which I point out only so that you all know that Scarborough is also
>>offering Tissint that is apparently real. However, since the small
>>individual I regard as highly suspect is not accompanied by such
>>photos, I would assume that it was not purchased from the same
>>source, and is thus less likely to be Tissint, given the seller's
>>history.
>>
>>Since John Bryan's labels have been wrong in the past, if you insist
>>on purchasing specimens from him, I would suggest buying based only on
>>the appearance of what he sells. I can offer no other evidence to
>>suggest that the above stone is real or fake, but would add that I've
>>seen
>>some 2.5 kilograms of Tissint in person, to say nothing of photographs.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jason
>>
>>------
>>
>>Darryl has since confirmed that the individual of "Tissint" being
>>offered did not come from him, though the fragment did; it doesn't
>>prove anything, but it makes me doubt the individual's authenticity
>>all the more.
>>
>>The 27.2 gram slice of "Oum Dreyga" Brandon mentioned is also most
>>definitely an L-chondrite (L3/4-6 breccia, to include likely
>>possibilities).
>>
>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUM-DREYGA-H3-5-METEORITE-27-2-g-BEAUTIFUL-THICK-FUSION-CRUSTED-SLICE-/280805041109?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416148e3d5#ht_692wt_1070
>>
>>The crust is too smooth and sand-blasted, the broken edges of the
>>slice are covered in caliche, and it's an L-chondrite. It's a nice
>>slice, but it's not Oum Dreyga.
>>
>>In light of Brandon's recent post and the previous stuff...I really
>>don't have much else to say. Brandon's noted that the slice he
>>purchased from Scarborough was sold as "unclassified" while this new
>>slice is being offered as "Oum Dreyga." This rather points towards
>>Scarborough's being responsible for the errors, though it's still not
>>proof of fraud. All one could do is analyze the slice, confirm it is
>>(not) Oum Dreyga, and...prove what we already know, which is that he
>>has sold (and is selling) material that is mislabeled.
>>
>>Does anyone have a solid contact at ebay? I've called them before
>>about things like this, but it doesn't seem to do much.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jason
>>______________________________________________
>>
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>
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Received on Tue 14 Feb 2012 11:22:08 AM PST