[meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:57:19 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <8CEF47AF2429C08-2118-26A61_at_webmail-d020.sysops.aol.com>

" the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't sound
implausible, but what are the clues?"

Hi, Regine, Carleton, Mike, Bernd, Jeff, David, Listers;

I would like to draw some attention to the "carried in a medicine
pouch" since Regine asked ;-)

These guys are all with the Great Spirit now, who did the excavations,
so we're stuck analyzing something that was contermplated in the 1920's
with the baggage of nearly an intervening century.

It is quite possible, like many things, that this medicine pouch
comment is a comment run amok as usual with meteorites, someone says
something, then it takes on a life of its own due to tales getting
taller,even among conservative scientists, unintentionally, of course,
everyone just takes away a different idea and they follow natural
'election'.

The original comment seems to be that it was carried as "medicine",
rather than in a medicine pouch. While this seems to be a minor
difference, it's not. One involves an inference and the other is more
of an observation.

Nininger later (1952) expounds on the comment when discussing Native
American meteorite collectors and the medicine pounch has by then
become alive in its own, through no one's fault.

The concept of "medicine" doesn't necessarily require a pouch, and may
not even be in the hands of a medicine man, why, it just as well could
have been a chief, or a brave warrior ... and could just as well be
 from a great deal of handling. The observation was simply that at
least three of the protuberances above the regmaglypts depressions were
highly worn from what was very plausibly a soft material. To make the
leap to call it a pouch, or just a lot of hands ... is a good
philosophical theme for a room full of meteorite collectors and
archeaologists without Regine's magic powder burns evidence. But the
fact was, the wear was supposedly caused from a lot of handling or
rubbing. That said, ablation is a strange master and it would be
verrrrry interesting to revisit this "wear" which formed the basis of
the original archaeological comments.

What is for sure, apparently is that it was found inside the pottery
and that in turn in a burial ground. So there are some Spirits
floating around it. Perhaps Man & Impact Ed has a theory, it's his
ballywick. But we do need to see it. Carleton kindly mentions that a
couple of grams were at ASU, that makes sense that Nininger would take
some. My fear is that calling this pivotal iron "just" another synonym
does no good to science if it is lost for inspection. Apparently the
piece weighed originally 3 ounces (about 85 g), and it was a complete
individual subject to what was speculated to be a violent history, that
is, after Nininger figured out how Glorieta ripped apart along of
course with Kunz.

But not only is the mystery with the original piece, this piece is
historical in that it was the first specimen that was used as a
keystone to pair a pallasite fall to a siderite fall ... and help
create the need to have a single name with synonyms ... how ironic,
errr... palladoxical ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: Regine P. <fips_bruno at yahoo.de>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>; bernd.pauli
<bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; meteorite-list
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Hi Doug, Bernd and all,

I too would like to know where this one is being kept. What baffles me
though,
how does one get to the conclusion the meteorite had been carried in a
medicine
bag? It doesn't sound implausible, but what are the clues? Magic powder
topping?
Is there any further info?


Regine



----- Urspr?ngliche Message -----
> Von: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> An: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> CC:
> Gesendet: 23:54 Sonntag, 29.April 2012
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Paired - quite likely - It has a much more interesting history than
to be
lumped
> as a synonym and IMO value as a named iron in its own right:
>
> This particular iron showed a lot of evidence of wear from human
handling and
> Nininger supported Mera's suggestion that it was carried in a
medicine pouch
> in Pojoaque, which makes a triangle geographically, roughly, with
Santa Fe,
> Glorieta, Mountain locality and Pojoaque pueble.? According to the
circumstances
> of the fine, it was found inside some old pottery during excavations
at the
> Pueblo, i.e., protected, and exhibited beautiful flow lines and
notable bluish

> fresh fusion crust, indicating it was a reasonable possibility that
whoever
> found it saw it fall.? As it was found during excavations, it raises
the
> possibility of using this to date the Glorieta Mountain fall.
>
> It would be nice to know where this meteorite is now.? Did it make it
to New
> Mexico's collection?? Nininger, in 1931, saw it in Santa Fe,
specifically in
> the "Department of Anthropology", where Mera may have been working.?
> But someone else needs to sleuth a bit further from here because I
sure
> don't know where it is now, and it would be great to see it in its
present
> condition ;-), as it was cut up a bit because Nininger and others
used it to
> argue that Glorieta Mountain wasn't a siderite, but a
sidero-pallasite
> combination as well as consolidate some of the names Bernd lists ...
I think
the
> paper was 1940.
>
> Definitely a specimen with a very special, if not sacred, history ...
>
> Kindest wishes
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernd V. Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite
>
>
> Hello Jeff, Mike, David and List,
>
> David wrote: "It is indeed the synonym for Glorieta"
>
> ... and only one out of several others:
>
> Albuquerque
> Canoncito
> Glorieta
> Pojoaque
> Rio Arriba
> Santa Fe
> Santa Fe County
> Trinity County
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bernd
>
>
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Received on Sun 29 Apr 2012 07:57:19 PM PDT