[meteorite-list] Second experiment confirms faster-than-lightparticles gps accuracy

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:48:04 -0600
Message-ID: <F46771FC37AF4016B6A2EE9CD27BB9D2_at_ATARIENGINE2>

Steve, List,

An explanation of the experiment's relativistic error
can be found here:

van Elburg, R. A. J., 2011, Times of Flight between a
Source and a Detector observed from a GPS satelite.
arXiv:1110.2685v1 [physics.gen-ph]
http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.2685

PDF file at
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.2685v1

The relativistic error is 32 ns each way, so the total
error is 64 ns, which is exactly the time-beating pace
of the faster-than-light neutrinos reported. It's a
pretty straightforward error, using the baseline reference
frame rather than the clock reference frame.


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Dunklee" <steve.dunklee at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "JoshuaTreeMuseum"
<joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Second experiment confirms
faster-than-lightparticles gps accuracy


This article contains gps info and accuracy . It states it depends on
the earths movement and other factors and gives an accuracy of 14
nanoseconds. A 60 nanosecond difference in measurements is way off the
accuracy of the gps clocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_relativity_on_GPS#Relativity

cheers
Steve Dunklee

--- On Sat, 11/19/11, JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
wrote:

> From: JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Second experiment confirms
> faster-than-light particles
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, November 19, 2011, 2:07 AM
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matson, Robert D."
> <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
> To: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 6:44 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Second experiment confirms
> faster-than-light particles
>
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> It was my understanding that the mystery of the CERN
> faster-than-
> light-speed neutrino result was solved over a month ago:
> failure
> to account for the relativistic motion of the GPS clocks
> used to
> time the neutrinos.
>
> GPS satellites orbit in planes inclined 55 degrees relative
> to
> the equator, coincidentally somewhat parallel to the
> neutrino
> flight path bearing on the ground. From the satellite's
> perspective,
> both the positions of the neutrino source and the neutrino
> detector
> are changing: in this particular case, from the perspective
> of the
> GPS clock, the detector is moving towards the neutrino
> source, and
> consequently the distance travelled by the particles -- as
> measured
> in the frame of the clock -- is shorter than the distance
> measured
> on the ground. As a result, the neutrinos should arrive
> about 32
> nanoseconds early: an amount that must be doubled because
> the same
> error occurs at each end of the experiment. So the total
> correction
> is 64 nanoseconds: almost exactly what the OPERA team
> observed.
>
> If they ran the experiment a second time and got the same
> result,
> it seems to me that it is only confirming a prediction of
> special relativity. --Rob
>
> ---------------------
>
> It seems unbelievable that the relativistic satellite
> motion has not been brought to their attention. I mean if
> you guys know about it, wouldn't they? I've also read
> elsewhere about this effect and how it could be skewing the
> results. I find it hard to believe they don't know about
> this and would not make the necessary corrections.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
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Received on Sun 20 Nov 2011 05:48:04 PM PST