[meteorite-list] clusters of holes on the ground on Mars andEarth -- impact swarms: Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2011.07.30

From: Dennis Cox <dragon-hunter_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 07:33:46 -0700
Message-ID: <SNT135-ds6AAD5ED865E26EFBC9B8F8F390_at_phx.gbl>

Thanks Sterling,
I know what sinkholes look like too.

The New Mexico craters number in the thousands.

I've been checking the Geologic record, and digging into the literature, for
more than a year now. I have written to many of the top planetary scientists
at NASA. None of them has been able to tell me of any actual science that's
been done there.

Although, the discovery of a single interconnected cave system that covers
thousands of square miles would be just as big a deal as clusters of small
impact craters covering the same area. They are found in a large enough
quantity, and variety of terrains, to rule out karst collapse as the cause
with a fair degree of confidence.

I've had it up to here with uniformitarian assumptive hand waving. And I
don't see it as anymore valid than some of the pseudoscience I've read. The
most entertaining of those is the one from the Velikovskian delusionists who
tell me they are caused by interplanetary electric discharges.

And after two years of digging in the literature, I really don't give a rip
either way.

Can someone tell me who has done some real science there?

Regards,
Dennis Cox







--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:20 PM
To: "Rich Murray" <rmforall at gmail.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "michael barron"
<mhbarron at gmail.com>; "Rich Murray" <rmforall at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] clusters of holes on the ground on Mars
andEarth -- impact swarms: Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2011.07.30

>> there is no reason to assume those
>> in the images from Mars did either...
>> Until we?ve been there on the ground.
>
> The reasons are these. The "crater-counters"
> have identified 220,000 unambiguous craters
> of every age on Mars, exclusive of any volcanic
> or ambiguous features, of which there are many
> thousands, but they are a tiny minority.
>
> On the Earth, the number of verified craters is
> less than 200. I grant you, many more will be
> verified, but the Earth should have 2.6 times as
> many on its land surface as Mars does, 500,000..
>
> It did, cumulatively, have that half million craters,
> but they are gone because the Earth is, as the
> freshman geology clich? has it, a "dynamic planet."
>
> On the Earth, the default assumption for a hole
> is geological process (of whatever kind). On Mars,
> it is Splat! And both are likely right in the first
> approximation.
>
> I bet if you checked the geological literature, you
> would find that many of these features have been
> visited. Perhaps not investigated with impact in
> mind, but it should be possible to isolate those
> with no obvious terrestrial cause.
>
> About 1.4-mile from my house is a perfectly conical
> hole 300 feet across, very fresh and grass-overgrown.
> Since it (and I) live on top of an old limestone cliff
> in a wet climate, I know perfectly well how it formed.
> I have no need to scratch for any shocked materials.
>
> I only hope one doesn't open up under my house...
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Murray" <rmforall at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "michael barron"
> <mhbarron at gmail.com>; "Rich Murray" <rmforall at gmail.com>; "Rich Murray"
> <rmforall at comcast.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:56 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] clusters of holes on the ground on Mars and
> Earth -- impact swarms: Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2011.07.30
>
>
> clusters of holes on the ground on Mars and Earth -- impact swarms:
> Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2011.07.30
>
> http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/holes-in-the-ground/
>
> Holes in the ground
>
>>From Wikipedia we read that ?Crater? may refer to:
>
> In landforms:
>
> Impact crater, caused by two celestial bodies impacting each other,
> such as a meteorite hitting a planet
> Volcanic crater or caldera, formed by volcanic activity
> Subsidence crater, from an underground (usually nuclear) explosion
> A maar crater, a relief crater caused by a phreatic eruption or explosion
> pit crater, a crater that forms through sinking of the surface and not
> as a vent for lava
> Crater lake
> Explosion crater, a hole formed in the ground produced by an explosion
> near or below the surface.
>
> Here we see a small Crater field on Mars.
> The largest of the small craters you see here is about 500 meters across.
> The consensus is that they are all impact craters.
> The problems we have here is in the uniform condition of the craters,
> and their sizes, and distribution.
>
> If, as is assumed, impact events do indeed happen at a steady rate,
> and these impacts all happened one at a time, over a long period, then
> we should see some variation of condition from the earliest, to the
> most recent.
> Also, they are concentrated into fields of craters surrounded by large
> areas with no craters at all.
> If they fell one at a time, then they should be evenly distributed all
> over entire the surface of the planet.
> They could only be in a concentrated cluster like this, in exactly the
> same condition, if they all fell at the same time, in a meteoroid
> swarm.
>
> http://craterhunter.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/mars1.jpg
>
> http://craterhunter.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/mars2_thumb.jpg?w=474&h=323
>
> On Mars, it is assumed without question that we are looking at impact
> craters.
> But here on Earth, if we see the same fractal distribution of craters,
> the tendency is to deny that so many impact craters could happen in a
> terrestrial surface;
> much less that a large cluster of small fragments could hit all at the
> same time.
>
> Our astronomers tell us that a meteoroid swarm of small fragments is a
> more probable event, than a large, solid bolide.
> Yet most geologists agree that such things cannot be?.
> At least, not here on Earth.
>
> But we are orbiting around in the very same shooting gallery as Mars.
> And in central, and eastern, New Mexico, there are thousands of small
> craters.
> All in the very same geologic condition.
> They are a bit small compared to the ones we see above.
> But the New Mexico craters have exactly the same fractal distribution
> as some of the crater fields on Mars.
> And except for differences in weathering that can be accounted for by
> different atmospheric conditions, they are in the very same geologic
> condition.
>
> https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=5d6b9f6c30c6fe9f&sc=photos&id=5D6B9F6C30C6FE9F%211643
> View Full Album
>
> If those in New Mexico didn?t form by impact, there is no reason to
> assume those in the images from Mars did either.
>
> Until we?ve been there on the ground.
>
> JULY 30, 2011 AT 9:37 AM
> Dennis Cox dragon-hunter at live.com
> Fresno, California
>
> Impact melt formation by low-altitude airburst processes, evidence from
> small terrestrial craters and numerical modeling, H E Newsom & MBE
> Boslough
> 2008 Mar 2p abstract: Rich Murray 2010.11.17
> http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_11_01_archive.htm
> Wednesday, November 17, 2010
> [ at end of each long page, click on Older Posts ]
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/73
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Received on Sun 31 Jul 2011 10:33:46 AM PDT