[meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program

From: Meteorites USA <eric_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:35:46 -0700
Message-ID: <4C8801B2.50807_at_meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Richard, Great post, and points... I agree that the numbers won't
work when actually 'classifying' meteorites, or even using a university
lab to visually examine a suspect/possible meteorite. The small "fee"
would be insignificant and not economically practical I understand for a
university lab. Besides that, there is a process already in place for
classification. This I would hazard a guess is why ASU is stopping their
meteorite ID program. It's just not cost effective and it bogs down the
real classification work. I was not referring to a university lab being
used in the "identification" process though.

There is a clear distinction between identification and classification
in the meteorite world. Classifying a meteorite is a completely
different story than IDing a piece of magnetite. This is a two edged
sword I know.

My point is this. It's worth the small "fee" for a private sector
business to "weed" through the 1000 meteorwrong submissions to get to
the 1 that has a better chance of being a meteorite. This in turn frees
up the time of the university lab scientist to do actual classification
work. His/her time is now spent on "pre-qualified" leads/submissions
instead of non-meteorites and it becomes much more efficient.
Prequalifying suspect meteorites through this process would work to
alleviate the abuse, and would weed out those false meteorites at the
same time.

The numbers I ran are simple. Most meteorite people I know make between
$25/hr-$50/hr in their day jobs. It might be worth a $25-$50 fee for
meteorite experts to field the meteorwrong submissions, to get to that
.1% that are meteorites before submitting them to a lab. Visually
examining a suspect stone takes less than 1 hour of time to get a
reasonable and accurate idea whether a stone is a meteorite or hunk of
basalt.

I would put forth there are many meteorite experts here on list and
within the meteorite world that can identify a suspect meteorite with a
very high degree of accuracy. Most are very experienced in
spotting/examining the obvious magnetite, basalt, and river rocks that
are constantly submitted by finders.

At the very least it would shrink the pool of wrongs, and increase the
percentage of meteorites submitted to the labs for classification.

Eric




On 9/8/2010 1:37 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:
> Eric,
>
> I'm not sure if you've "run the numbers" on what such a service would cost, but lets talk a few numbers, that I admit are essentially pulled out of thin air.
>
> Salary for a full time researcher, with no benefits, $35000 per year (and that's on the low side)
> Lab, minimum cost of $1000 per month, just for the space, with no equipment.
> Lab costs, minimum of $100 per hour.
> Lab equipment, I won't even make a guess at this, but minimum, would be many 10s of thousands of dollars for a properly equipped lab.
>
>
> So, say the researcher can spend 5 full hours each day actually examining& studying the specimens. The rest of the day is spent doing other related tasks. That means 25 hours per week or 1250 hours per year (only two weeks vacation per year)
>
> Using the three numbers I cite $35,000 + $12,000 + 125,000 means that at a minimum a facility would need to charge at least $137.60 per hour just to break even on these costs. Of course many institutions charge overhead of as much as 50% so now that hourly cost is double.
>
> If you provide the researcher with any benefits at all and you have to equip the lab with even a high quality polarizing microscope, your hourly costs go up in proportion to how much equipment is in the lab and how rapidly those costs can be depreciated. Need another employee that deals with administration? Well your hourly fees have to go up again.
>
> Agreed that if you offer a service that at has a minimum fee of $300 just to open the package and let you know you have a meteor-wrong, most of these submissions will vanish. However, how many people would be willing to spend the $300 base fee to be told by an expert, in effect "certify" the rock they know is a meteorite in fact a meteorite? How many of those would then pay the many hundred or thousands of dollars more for this commercial company to classify the meteorite? Few to none I suspect.
>
> As I said I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess that those of you getting meteorites classified, if you are paying under several hundred dollars per hour in fees to get it done, are getting an incredible bargain. This is often because the costs are passed on to the taxpayer that funds your institution of choice.
>
> I doubt any of the meteoriticists doing this at an institution have figured out a per hour or per classification cost, but my guess is that my estimate is well below actual costs.
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> Full Moon Photography
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/8/10, Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ASU suspends public meteorite identification program
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 11:40 AM
>> I would think a "paid" meteorite
>> identification service might alleviate some of the burden of
>> abuse. This would have a screening effect on those that
>> would normally be adamant that their Earth rock is a
>> meteorite even in the presence of evidence it's not. People
>> that won't take no for an answer probably wouldn't
>> spend money to have it examined professionally in the first
>> place. Supplement your time with a small fee. This will weed
>> out those in denial.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/2010 11:26 AM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, it was just a matter of time. You can only
>>>
>> tie up your resources looking
>>
>>> at so many meteorite wrongs before it interferes with
>>>
>> budget and time
>>
>>> management. I no longer look at
>>>
>> solicited/suspected meteorites from unknown
>>
>>> parties for the same reasons. Most think their finds
>>>
>> are going to make them the
>>
>>> latest millionaires and do not want to hear the
>>>
>> truth. Dreams are free unless
>>
>>> you are the one characterizing the object. Some get
>>>
>> very angry when you tell
>>
>>> them what they have is not a meteorite and they are
>>>
>> not that easy to find
>>
>>> regardless of what they saw on TV or read on some
>>>
>> website. You can only be
>>
>>> abused so many times before the process becomes less
>>>
>> enjoyable.
>>
>>>
>>> Here is to finding real meteorites!
>>>
>>> Adam
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>
>
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Received on Wed 08 Sep 2010 05:35:46 PM PDT