[meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:40:12 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTilyW3gNG6TEUMA1-Ego4sa9kQ7qGP9Av2rmZT0q_at_mail.gmail.com>

"In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no
magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price
go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a, or Daule, or
Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on
those."

Agreed here. There is only one certainty about the meteorite market -
she is fickle mistress. ;)

There some falls that will never come down in price, due to scarcity
of available specimens. Cali is a good example I think. Whetstone
will likely hold it's value well.

Maybe a good discussion would be "ATW" - or available total weight. A
fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the material is
locked away from the private market, then the price will reflect that.

Best regards,

MikeG

On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
> MikeG wrote: "The TKW is vastly different, but TKW should not be a factor in
> a fall being considered "historical.""
>
> I think you mean "historic," but I said nothing about TKW meaning something
> was historic or that Buzzard was not significant.
>
> In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to death. There is no
> magic formula for determining what the price is going to do. Did the price
> go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a, or Daule, or
> Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for prices to fall on
> those.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike Bandli
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Mike Bandli
> Historic Meteorites
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM
> To: Mike Bandli
> Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
>
> Hi Mike and List,
>
> No, I did not mean that first buyers are all inexperienced or
> impatient. Some are. Some are not. We all have different reasons
> for acquiring certain meteorites and the "first on the block"
> mentality appeals to many. If money was no concern for me, I would
> all sizeable specimens of every fall I mentioned. But I must be very
> careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the pantry will go
> empty.
>
> Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100 years.
>> Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to
>> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
>
> Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in Saskatchewan. Fireball
> captured on video to great effect. The TKW is vastly different, but
> TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered "historical"
> (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would have historical
> significance despite not being witnessed. The prices for Buzzard are
> much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is TKW - not
> historical significance.
>
>> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered.
>> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under
> one
>> kilo available to collectors.
>
> Ok, I am schooled on this one. I did not recall that the TKW was less
> than one kilo and I did not recall that it was Ecuador's first. I
> think the price on Daule has remained high not because of it's
> historical significance, but because the supply is tied up in the
> hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their prices -
> essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same could be argued
> (true or not) for Whetstone.
>
>> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of
> thousands
>> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find
>> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material
>> will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost
> with
>> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated.
>
> Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is an aesthetic
> concern. There are tons of gorgeous breccias on the market. NWA 788
> is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies compared to Daule, Ash
> Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin. Of course, I am comparing a NWA find
> to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty breccia, and
> it's not rare. I am very eager to hear more about Wisconsin,
> including the classification data and orbit if it is calculated. It
> is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much lower than Ash
> Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping faster than Ash
> Creek did. Odd.
>
>> For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price,
>> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events.
>
> I agree here. These are truly amazing events and opportunities to
> educate people about science. But I would remiss to ignore the
> economic factors behind the valuation criteria. Whetstone Mountains
> is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in any way. But few
> would argue that the promotional strategy behind that fall played a
> significant role in it's market pricing. Schrader, Gheesling, Farmer
> and others did a great job in promoting the highlights of this fall -
> without that marketing machine, it may have faded into obscurity (and
> the bargain bin) much quicker. Some would argue that it was not
> "marketing" or "promotion" per-se, but perceptions cannot be ignored
> and there is a perception that these forces were at work behind that
> fall.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello MikeG,
>>
>> Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies that those that don't wait
>> for some kind of price drop are inexperienced, impatient, or na?ve. This
>> couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those that purchase
> immediately
>> are just the opposite - experienced, long-time collectors. It has nothing
> to
>> do with "being the first on the block to own it." In the case of
> Wisconsin,
>> many wanted complete stones, which were few and far between. Many wanted
>> pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are all good reasons, and
>> everyone is happy.
>>
>> MikeG wrote: "Despite the marketing hype, there is little special about
> any
>> of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches to them."
>>
>> I won't attach any significance to them, but will state the facts:
>>
>> Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona fall in nearly 100
> years.
>> Probably the most documented recovery in history. Very little available to
>> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
>>
>> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to ever be recovered.
>> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful shock breccia. Under
> one
>> kilo available to collectors.
>>
>> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history. Witnessed by tens of
> thousands
>> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight and horrible search/find
>> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain, low-oxidized material
>> will always hold a premium, because the contrast of the breccia is lost
> with
>> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit calculated.
>>
>> For those of us who don't view things through the prisms of type or price,
>> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and significant events.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Mike Bandli
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Mike Bandli
>> Historic Meteorites
>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>> IMCA #5765
>> -----------------------------------------------
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic
>> Stone & Ironworks
>> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:26 AM
>> To: Shawn Alan
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
>>
>> Hi Shawn and List,
>>
>> Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are witnessing (in part) a
>> dynamic of collecting meteorites.
>>
>> New collectors are steadily entering this field/hobby and those who
>> stay will mature and learn. Their knowledge of meteoritics,
>> collecting, and the market will increase with their experience. What
>> we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we are seeing now with
>> Wisconsin because the greater collector market is maturing. Perhaps
>> now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies and the majority of
>> current collectors are becoming more savvy in their purchases. One of
>> the first lessons about falls that newbies learn is patience. It's
>> the same with most things - the first person on the block to have a
>> thing, pays much more for that thing. So the rest of the people sit
>> back and wait for the price to come down - which it usually does.
>> Those who wanted to be the first on the block to own Wisconsin now
>> have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get a better price.
>> The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top dollar for a common
>> chondrite because it is exciting to them, regardless of the petrologic
>> type or circumstances of the fall. Perhaps the "Class of Ash Creek"
>> has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits of patience, rational
>> assessment, and experience.
>>
>> Of course, this could change in a moment when the second season of
>> Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager beginners discovers
>> meteorites. Or when the next brilliant fireball goes viral on
>> YouTube.
>>
>> I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash Creek, Whetstone
>> Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until the right price comes
>> along. Those falls just don't fit into my collecting scheme - because
>> they are ordinary chondrites that fell under ordinary circumstances
>> (for the most part). Despite the marketing hype, there is little
>> special about any of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches
>> to them. Do any of the above have the makings of a truly "historical"
>> fall - maybe, maybe not. Are they rare types? No. I'm not trying to
>> downplay any of these falls, but I think few would argue that these
>> falls were well worth the prices they were introduced at.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Listers,
>>>
>>> I have noticed with the Livingston WI meteorite Fall in April that the
>>> prices were at a good high, well over $100 a gram for the first month
>> being
>>> sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush happened over night with a few
>>> sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and it was mayhem. However, in
>> the
>>> past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping low, and I mean low.
> Tonight
>>> on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78 and another slice at 9.66g
>>> sold at $285.
>>>
>>> With other recent falls they tend to stay high for the first year from
>> what
>>> I have seen with sales and research, but with the WI fall this isn't the
>>> case. I am left to wondering why is it with this fall that it had a great
>>> led in sales in the first month and dropped so low in less then 2 months,
>>> not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found in the field? Is it that
>>> majority of the WI fall meteorites are being sold at a recorded high
>> weight,
>>> dealers selling the big boys all at once?
>>>
>>> I see that this coming month that sales with historic falls will keep
>> going
>>> up and the exchange of rare and special meteorite falls will be revisited
>>> for the fact of the rich history they command in the market and with
>>> collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new NWAs that keep popping up
>>> will bring a new twist to the collecting world. All I can say is history
>>> repeats its self and history can out weigh anything through and through
>>> again while trends come and go. Hold on and lets see what July brings for
>>> the hot summer month to cool our needs for meteorites.
>>>
>>> Shawn Alan
>>> IMCA 1633
>>> eBaystore
>>>
>>
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>> 4340
>>> ______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------

Received on Thu 01 Jul 2010 02:40:12 PM PDT