[meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July

From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <888513.92223.qm_at_web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

The WI fall was a strange one. I think too many people were trying to get rich of others.
Before anyone comes at me with the numbers of the trip, I know and I understand, but at the same time, it can be done for much less.

When I see reports of the landowners selling the stones for less then $10 per gram (I know of several who would not pay more the $3 per gram!)and then see them selling it for $100/g or more, thats just too much...

Why do you think the 2 kg stone was hushed up so much? I have seen pics of it, so have many others and yet nobody wants to act like it exists and people still call a 330g stone the main mass when in reality, its far from the main mass.

I dont like the trend with new falls and the prices that go with them, its taking advantage of collectors. Thats the whole reason I sold my WI material at $60 or less when others were still getting $100 or more... and I got many mean emails filled with profanity over putting that price public... Why? They knew they it would hurt the value. I did not sell it for that to do that, I did it because its not worth any more then that, and anyone who says it is, I ask again, why?

There is likely 10kg or more of the fall, its not rare by any means.

Sure there is a price to pay for those that cant make it to the fall site, but when is it too much?


Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites


--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and alike for July
> To: "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 2:40 PM
> "In the end, I think this is all
> being overanalyzed to death. There is no
> magic formula for determining what the price is going to
> do. Did the price
> go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a, or
> Daule, or
> Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for
> prices to fall on
> those."
>
> Agreed here.? There is only one certainty about the
> meteorite market -
> she is fickle mistress. ;)
>
> There some falls that will never come down in price, due to
> scarcity
> of available specimens.? Cali is a good example I
> think.? Whetstone
> will likely hold it's value well.
>
> Maybe a good discussion would be "ATW" - or available total
> weight.? A
> fall may have a sizeable TKW, but if the majority of the
> material is
> locked away from the private market, then the price will
> reflect that.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > MikeG wrote: "The TKW is vastly different, but TKW
> should not be a factor in
> > a fall being considered "historical.""
> >
> > I think you mean "historic," but I said nothing about
> TKW meaning something
> > was historic or that Buzzard was not significant.
> >
> > In the end, I think this is all being overanalyzed to
> death. There is no
> > magic formula for determining what the price is going
> to do. Did the price
> > go down on Puerto Lapice, or Villalbeto de la Pe?a,
> or Daule, or
> > Leighlinbridge? I bet many wish they did not wait for
> prices to fall on
> > those.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Mike Bandli
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > Mike Bandli
> > Historic Meteorites
> > www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> > IMCA #5765
> > -----------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 9:23 AM
> > To: Mike Bandli
> > Cc: Shawn Alan; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall and
> alike for July
> >
> > Hi Mike and List,
> >
> > No, I did not mean that first buyers are all
> inexperienced or
> > impatient.? Some are.? Some are not.?
> We all have different reasons
> > for acquiring certain meteorites and the "first on the
> block"
> > mentality appeals to many.? If money was no
> concern for me, I would
> > all sizeable specimens of every fall I
> mentioned.? But I must be very
> > careful with my funds - or my wife will kill me or the
> pantry will go
> > empty.
> >
> >? Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered
> Arizona fall in nearly 100 years.
> >> Probably the most documented recovery in history.
> Very little available to
> >> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
> >
> > Buzzard Coulee - first ever recovered fall in
> Saskatchewan.? Fireball
> > captured on video to great effect.? The TKW is
> vastly different, but
> > TKW should not be a factor in a fall being considered
> "historical"
> > (IMO) - if so, every tiny Antarctic fragment would
> have historical
> > significance despite not being witnessed.? The
> prices for Buzzard are
> > much lower than Whetstone and the only difference is
> TKW - not
> > historical significance.
> >
> >> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to
> ever be recovered.
> >> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful
> shock breccia. Under
> > one
> >> kilo available to collectors.
> >
> > Ok, I am schooled on this one.? I did not recall
> that the TKW was less
> > than one kilo and I did not recall that it was
> Ecuador's first.? I
> > think the price on Daule has remained high not because
> of it's
> > historical significance, but because the supply is
> tied up in the
> > hands of a very few dealers who have coordinated their
> prices -
> > essentially the price is fixed on Daule and the same
> could be argued
> > (true or not) for Whetstone.
> >
> >> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history.
> Witnessed by tens of
> > thousands
> >> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight
> and horrible search/find
> >> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain,
> low-oxidized material
> >> will always hold a premium, because the contrast
> of the breccia is lost
> > with
> >> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit
> calculated.
> >
> > Like Ecuador, it is a beautiful breccia - but that is
> an aesthetic
> > concern.? There are tons of gorgeous breccias on
> the market.? NWA 788
> > is a gorgeous breccia but it sells for pennies
> compared to Daule, Ash
> > Creek, Peekskill or Wisconsin.? Of course, I am
> comparing a NWA find
> > to a witnessed fall, but a pretty breccia is a pretty
> breccia, and
> > it's not rare.? I am very eager to hear more
> about Wisconsin,
> > including the classification data and orbit if it is
> calculated.? It
> > is odd that the TKW of Wisconsin will likely be much
> lower than Ash
> > Creek, yet already the Wisconsin prices are dropping
> faster than Ash
> > Creek did.? Odd.
> >
> >> For those of us who don't view things through the
> prisms of type or price,
> >> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and
> significant events.
> >
> > I agree here.? These are truly amazing events and
> opportunities to
> > educate people about science.? But I would remiss
> to ignore the
> > economic factors behind the valuation criteria.?
> Whetstone Mountains
> > is a great fall and I do not mean to denigrate it in
> any way.? But few
> > would argue that the promotional strategy behind that
> fall played a
> > significant role in it's market pricing.?
> Schrader, Gheesling, Farmer
> > and others did a great job in promoting the highlights
> of this fall -
> > without that marketing machine, it may have faded into
> obscurity (and
> > the bargain bin) much quicker.? Some would argue
> that it was not
> > "marketing" or "promotion" per-se, but perceptions
> cannot be ignored
> > and there is a perception that these forces were at
> work behind that
> > fall.
> >
> > Best regards and happy huntings,
> >
> > MikeG
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 7/1/10, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >> Hello MikeG,
> >>
> >> Maybe you don't mean it, but your post implies
> that those that don't wait
> >> for some kind of price drop are inexperienced,
> impatient, or na?ve. This
> >> couldn't be further from the truth. Many of those
> that purchase
> > immediately
> >> are just the opposite - experienced, long-time
> collectors. It has nothing
> > to
> >> do with "being the first on the block to own it."
> In the case of
> > Wisconsin,
> >> many wanted complete stones, which were few and
> far between. Many wanted
> >> pre-rain material. Whatever the reason, they are
> all good reasons, and
> >> everyone is happy.
> >>
> >> MikeG wrote: "Despite the marketing hype, there is
> little special about
> > any
> >> of them beyond the significance the buyer attaches
> to them."
> >>
> >> I won't attach any significance to them, but will
> state the facts:
> >>
> >> Whetstone Mountains - the first recovered Arizona
> fall in nearly 100
> > years.
> >> Probably the most documented recovery in history.
> Very little available to
> >> collectors. Fireball captured on video.
> >>
> >> Daule - the first and only Ecuadorian meteorite to
> ever be recovered.
> >> Obviously an historic event for Ecuador. Beautiful
> shock breccia. Under
> > one
> >> kilo available to collectors.
> >>
> >> Wisconsin - the most covered fall in history.
> Witnessed by tens of
> > thousands
> >> of people. Stunning breccia. Low recovered weight
> and horrible search/find
> >> ratio (much more expensive to find). The pre-rain,
> low-oxidized material
> >> will always hold a premium, because the contrast
> of the breccia is lost
> > with
> >> oxidation. I believe this one will also be orbit
> calculated.
> >>
> >> For those of us who don't view things through the
> prisms of type or price,
> >> all meteorite falls and recoveries are special and
> significant events.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mike Bandli
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------
> >> Mike Bandli
> >> Historic Meteorites
> >> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> >> IMCA #5765
> >> -----------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Galactic
> >> Stone & Ironworks
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:26 AM
> >> To: Shawn Alan
> >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trends with WI Fall
> and alike for July
> >>
> >> Hi Shawn and List,
> >>
> >> Perhaps I am off-base here, but I think we are
> witnessing (in part) a
> >> dynamic of collecting meteorites.
> >>
> >> New collectors are steadily entering this
> field/hobby and those who
> >> stay will mature and learn.? Their knowledge
> of meteoritics,
> >> collecting, and the market will increase with
> their experience.? What
> >> we saw with Ash Creek is different than what we
> are seeing now with
> >> Wisconsin because the greater collector market is
> maturing.? Perhaps
> >> now we are in-between the influx crowds of newbies
> and the majority of
> >> current collectors are becoming more savvy in
> their purchases.? One of
> >> the first lessons about falls that newbies learn
> is patience.? It's
> >> the same with most things - the first person on
> the block to have a
> >> thing, pays much more for that thing.? So the
> rest of the people sit
> >> back and wait for the price to come down - which
> it usually does.
> >> Those who wanted to be the first on the block to
> own Wisconsin now
> >> have it, and now the rest of us are waiting to get
> a better price.
> >> The new and inexperienced will rush out to pay top
> dollar for a common
> >> chondrite because it is exciting to them,
> regardless of the petrologic
> >> type or circumstances of the fall.? Perhaps
> the "Class of Ash Creek"
> >> has graduated and now we are seeing the benefits
> of patience, rational
> >> assessment, and experience.
> >>
> >> Of course, this could change in a moment when the
> second season of
> >> Meteorite Men starts and a new flock of eager
> beginners discovers
> >> meteorites.? Or when the next brilliant
> fireball goes viral on
> >> YouTube.
> >>
> >> I still don't own a sizeable specimen of Ash
> Creek, Whetstone
> >> Mountains, Daule, or Wisconsin and I won't until
> the right price comes
> >> along.? Those falls just don't fit into my
> collecting scheme - because
> >> they are ordinary chondrites that fell under
> ordinary circumstances
> >> (for the most part).? Despite the marketing
> hype, there is little
> >> special about any of them beyond the significance
> the buyer attaches
> >> to them.? Do any of the above have the
> makings of a truly "historical"
> >> fall - maybe, maybe not.? Are they rare
> types? No.? I'm not trying to
> >> downplay any of these falls, but I think few would
> argue that these
> >> falls were well worth the prices they were
> introduced at.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> MikeG
> >>
> >> On 7/1/10, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Hello Listers,
> >>>
> >>> I have noticed with the Livingston WI
> meteorite Fall in April that the
> >>> prices were at a good high, well over $100 a
> gram for the first month
> >> being
> >>> sold on eBay and alike. And then a rush
> happened over night with a few
> >>> sellers on eBay and the meteorite market and
> it was mayhem. However, in
> >> the
> >>> past few weeks I have noticed prices dropping
> low, and I mean low.
> > Tonight
> >>> on eBay a WI slice weighing at 3.8 sold at $78
> and another slice at 9.66g
> >>> sold at $285.
> >>>
> >>> With other recent falls they tend to stay high
> for the first year from
> >> what
> >>> I have seen with sales and research, but with
> the WI fall this isn't the
> >>> case. I am left to wondering why is it with
> this fall that it had a great
> >>> led in sales in the first month and dropped so
> low in less then 2 months,
> >>> not to mention the lack of WI meteorites found
> in the field? Is it that
> >>> majority of the WI fall meteorites are being
> sold at a recorded high
> >> weight,
> >>> dealers selling the big boys all at once?
> >>>
> >>> I see that this coming month that sales with
> historic falls will keep
> >> going
> >>> up and the exchange of rare and special
> meteorite falls will be revisited
> >>> for the fact of the rich history they command
> in the market and with
> >>> collectors alike. Also not to mention, the new
> NWAs that keep popping up
> >>> will bring a new twist to the collecting
> world. All I can say is history
> >>> repeats its self and history can out weigh
> anything through and through
> >>> again while trends come and go. Hold on and
> lets see what July brings for
> >>> the hot summer month to cool our needs for
> meteorites.
> >>>
> >>> Shawn Alan
> >>> IMCA 1633
> >>> eBaystore
> >>>
> >>
> > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
> >> 4340
> >>>
> ______________________________________________
> >>> Visit the Archives at
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> Meteorites
> >> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> >> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Visit the Archives at
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
> Meteorites
> > http://www.galactic-stone.com
> > http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Received on Thu 01 Jul 2010 04:05:09 PM PDT