[meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar valuescomefrom?

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:29:39 -0500
Message-ID: <e51421551002180429v3c0ccad1n640b75f09e48224d_at_mail.gmail.com>

In my last post there was a typo -

My post said - "And my dollar amount gripe was specifically targeted
at Sonny's CM1."

I meant to say - "And my dollar amount gripe was NOT specifically
targeted at Sonny's CM1."



On 2/18/10, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Steve, Jason and List,
>
> I woke up this morning with the intention of writing a thoughtful
> reply to Steve's last post, but Jason Utas already beat me to it.
>
> I wasn't trying to be critical. I like the show a lot and have not
> missed an episode yet. My wife and I make time to watch it every
> Wednesday, and we enjoy it together. I have fun pointing out the
> people I "know" while watching the show. It's funny because Dr.
> Garvie recently invited me to come to ASU and smell their Murchison
> samples and then I said to my wife - "Hey look, that's the guy who
> said I can come smell his meteorites.", and she got a laugh out of
> that. It's fun a show and I hope it continues to be successful - not
> just for Steve and Geoff (which kudos to them), but for the whole
> meteorite community.
>
> But (you knew there was a but!), I have some reservations about the
> emphasis on dollar amounts. The network and producers know that
> nothing motivates the general public like money and that in this
> economy, treasure hunting is very popular. Let's face it, not
> everyone shares our sometimes-irrational love of space rocks. So I
> can imagine the network/producers (or whoever calls these types of
> shots) pushing for more emphasis on the profit angle of meteorite
> hunting - to keep the lay public interested and watching the show.
> That angle alone won't snag new viewers who are completely
> uninterested in meteorites, but it may convince a few who are sitting
> on the fence to watch.
>
> Jason and Steve, you both raise good points. Something is only worth
> what someone will pay for it. I once paid $100 for a 1mg speck of
> Sylacauga. That is an astounding $100,000.00 a gram. But, I
> seriously doubt I could sell a 1-gram fragment of Sylacauga for $100K.
> We may know the ways of the market and how collectors spend their
> money, but the general lay public does not. Those of us reading this
> on the List, we know what Steve and Jason just said is true. But I
> can imagine a newbie watching the show and walking away with the idea
> that he can find a half-million dollar rock (that is not a planetary
> and weighs less than 1 kilo) in the desert and actually get that much
> money for it at auction from Christies or some other big auction
> house. We know the realities of the market - some of the viewers
> probably do not. It would be nice to hear Steve or Geoff mention
> something along the lines of what Steve just posted - that yes, the
> specimen is "worth" that much, but it will probably never bring that
> much from a sale. The only way a million-dollar (or half-million
> dollar) meteorite is going to bring in that much money is if the owner
> insures it, then it burns up in a house fire, and the insurance
> company cuts a big check for it.
>
> As for Tagish Lake - only a government would pay that kind of money
> for something. Most private individuals couldn't afford to fork over
> almost a million dollars for a 800-gram briquette. In the US, the
> finder of that 800 gram specimen would still be sitting on it and
> hoping for a sale someday. (or an insured house fire)
>
> Don't get me wrong. I am not picking on Sonny's awesome specimen.
> That is truly an amazing find and any meteorite hunter would cream
> himself upon finding it. The only thing better would be if Sonny
> found the first US lunaite. And my dollar amount gripe was
> specifically targeted at Sonny's CM1. Even those dry lake bed
> weathered chondrites seem overpriced at $1.50 a gram or $2 a gram. I
> guess they are probably worth that much now because they have been on
> TV, but I can buy prettier weathered ordinary-chondrites from NWA for
> a 20 cents a gram. A collector looking for a cool rock that was on TV
> and was found by a famous meteorite hunter will pay extra for an OC
> from Meteorite Men - but most collectors who buy weathered OC's are
> also the types who look for bargains and will buy the stones that cost
> .20 cents a gram and pass on the more expensive ones, regardless of
> their connection to TV. Heck, I just traded 100 grams of trinitite
> for 4000 grams of weathered uNWA stones. I won't say what my cost on
> trinitite is, but I can say that the batch of uNWA I traded for is
> prettier than the dry lake bed specimens (for the most part, I do have
> some UGLY ones though) and my cost was less than $1 a gram -
> substantially less. (FWIW, the ugliest ones are going into a rock
> tumbler)
>
> I just don't want this emphasis on dollar values to come back and bite
> us in the ass. I can imagine Steve (or any hunter) going up to some
> landowner and attempting to broker a deal to hunt on the land, and the
> landowner will expect $10,000 for every 100-gram OC that is pulled out
> of the dirt on his land - because there is an inflated sense of what
> these stones are worth. On the List, we know that a meteorite's
> stated value often has an asterisk next to it, and I think it's
> important that the general public knows that as well.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/18/10, meteorhntr at aol.com <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>> I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be
>> traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be
>> converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.
>>
>> Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock
>> (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian
>> money
>> for his find.
>>
>> Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for
>> his
>> CM1 rock over time. Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get
>> $700,000? No, I would think not.
>>
>> But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs
>> for
>> $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05
>> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>> comefrom?
>>
>> Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
>> Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
>> small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
>> A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
>> probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
>> for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
>> to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces. Ask any dealer
>> who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
>> only source.
>> As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
>> reach $60-70,000. Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
>> but...it's wholesale.
>> Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
>> general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
>> what people were willing to pay for them. I haven't asked Sonny, but
>> based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
>> as high as 100k for it. He might well get a better offer, but that
>> would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
>> the past decade.
>>
>> So, no. I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
>> reasonable estimate.
>> Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
>> cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
>> thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
>> price like that is rather deceptive.
>>
>> There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
>> is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
>> $16.8 million. Fukang may be "worth" $40/g. That doesn't mean that a
>> large piece is worth that much.
>>
>> And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
>> land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
>> hundred-acre parcel. And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
>> probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
>> one...not so much.
>>
>> I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
>> but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
>> when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM, <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi MikeG and List,
>>>
>>> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of
>>> Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several
>>> thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram
>>> thus
>>> the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a
>>> US find.
>>>
>>> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably
>>> worth
>>> $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for
>>> the
>>> 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>>>
>>> Steve Arnold
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
>>> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>>> come
>>> from?
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
>>> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated? This is not a
>>> criticism, but just a straight question. As a collector and part-time
>>> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
>>> the optimistic side.
>>>
>>> >From a dealer's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is
>>> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>>>
>>> >From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
>>> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
>>> what their rocks are worth.
>>>
>>> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
>>> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
>>> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
>>> deals with landowners.
>>>
>>> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from? Who is setting
>>> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>>>
>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michael;
>>>>
>>>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it
>>>> says
>>>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me
>>>> to
>>>> watch Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>>>> collectors would like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work-
>>>> a-
>>>> world lives
>>>> to ever do much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in
>>>> an
>>>> easy chair,warm or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the
>>>> world
>>>> community about the joy of the hunt and even profitable
>>>> sometimes.There
>>>> probably will be a lot of new interest in meteorites and collecting
>>>> them.(Get
>>>> ready dealers and collectors that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>>
>> ______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer
> http://www.galactic-stone.com
> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------

Received on Thu 18 Feb 2010 07:29:39 AM PST