[meteorite-list] Meteorite Law/Export and Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds
From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 12:30:09 -0500 Message-ID: <AANLkTimBMomHYvAFbCekn7pw4AaUp0VSaMMeSmcc_VWD_at_mail.gmail.com> Did someone say "NWA meteorite map"...? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/meteorite-map-saharan-desert-nwa-map-suitable-for-framing :) On 12/19/10, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote: > Is there a "map" that shows the areas of what is covered under NWA? If not, > I think it would be useful to have one, not only for talking to people about > meteorites but also for anyone who sells or collects NWA material. > Being able to show where and what NWA is would go a long way. > > As for the laws - I am not sure I know enough to offer an answer. It is > something I am currently researching however. > >From what I have seen, Algeria seems like a place that is not export > friendly (not too safe either!) and would require export permits to legally > own, just as Canada, Australia, Argentina, Brazil and many other countries. > > Does anyone know more about this or have a site/page set up on meteorite > laws and exporting? I think it would be a good resource to have available. > > Greg Catterton > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > IMCA member 4682 > On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites > On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites > > > --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote: > >> From: Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 11:52 AM >> Parts of Algeria are included in the >> definition of NWA. >> >> As for export laws, you tell me! >> >> Jeff >> >> On 12/19/2010 11:34 AM, Greg Catterton wrote: >> > Thanks for the info Jeff. I have a couple >> questions... >> > >> >> Algeria, Niger, and Libya were all possible >> collection >> >> areas, and these are not in the NWA area, which is >> defined >> >> as "Morocco and adjacent parts of the surrounding >> >> countries." >> > If this is the case, how do recent Lunars like NWA >> 2996, 4483 and 5151 become NWA stones when they were found >> in Algeria? >> > Given export laws (however foolish they are) shouldnt >> these require export permits to own like Canadian and >> Argentina falls since Algeria does not allow export? >> > >> > Greg Catterton >> > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com >> > IMCA member 4682 >> > On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites >> > On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov> >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov> >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Quick Question about >> Sahara xxxxx finds >> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 7:44 AM >> >> There are several issues and a >> >> misconception here. >> >> >> >> Misconception: The Nomenclature Committee (NomCom) >> does not >> >> change the names of meteorites once they are >> accepted, >> >> except in extraordinary circumstances (e.g., the >> Gao/Guenie >> >> nomenclatural nightmare). To do so would >> cause endless >> >> confusion. All of the Nova meteorites were >> named that >> >> way when they were initially published in the >> Bulletin. >> >> >> >> The "Sahara" series, which were collected and >> so-named by >> >> the Labenne family, predates the "NWA" series by >> several >> >> years. In the late 1997, the Sahara >> meteorites were >> >> being sold under this name, several groups of >> scientists >> >> wanted to publish on them, and the NomCom had to >> figure out >> >> what to do about their names. The choices >> were to >> >> accept these names, convince the Labennes to >> rename them, or >> >> to rename them ourselves for the official >> >> announcement. For several reasons, Sahara >> was >> >> accepted. First, the names were already >> coming into >> >> widespread use, and renaming them would cause a >> mess. >> >> Second, it was understood that the coordinates >> would be >> >> released, perhaps in five years, once the area was >> hunted >> >> out (this never happened, but I still hope it >> will). >> >> >> >> The vote to establish the NWA series came in 2000, >> when it >> >> became clear that the Saharan nomenclature problem >> was >> >> growing in magnitude. It seems possible >> that, had the >> >> Labenne meteorites appeared after this date, >> NomCom would >> >> have insisted that they all be called NWA. >> But >> >> probably not: we thought that Tunisia, >> eastern >> >> Algeria, Niger, and Libya were all possible >> collection >> >> areas, and these are not in the NWA area, which is >> defined >> >> as "Morocco and adjacent parts of the surrounding >> >> countries." >> >> >> >> Given all of this, probably the ideal names for >> the Labenne >> >> meteorites would have been Sahara 001 - Sahara >> xxx, but what >> >> was done was done. >> >> >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> On 12/18/2010 2:25 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: >> >>> Many will provide false information or not any >> at all >> >> to keep the location secret. There is a discussion >> elsewhere >> >> currently about a finder lying about the location >> to secure >> >> the material available. >> >>> Algeria has laws preventing the export of >> meteorites, >> >> yet there are new ones coming out everyday. Even >> recent >> >> Lunars from there are accepted and sold. All one >> has to do >> >> is simply say NWA. >> >>> Berduc was the same way, many were transported >> outside >> >> the country and claimed to have been found >> elsewhere. >> >>> I have seen many others questioned about >> locations and >> >> even know of one person who has outright lied >> about where a >> >> stone was recovered to keep from paying the land >> owner the >> >> share agreed on and created a laughable story of >> the find >> >> that has been published with so many flaws, it >> looks like a >> >> scam ad on ebay. I bet some of you have a piece of >> it in >> >> your collection and dont even know the whole story >> behind >> >> it! >> >>> I think it happens more then we would really >> want to >> >> know. >> >>> Greg Catterton >> >>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com >> >>> IMCA member 4682 >> >>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites >> >>> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Michael Gilmer<meteoritemike at gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>>> From: Michael Gilmer<meteoritemike at gmail.com> >> >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Quick Question >> about >> >> Sahara xxxxx finds >> >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >>>> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 1:51 >> PM >> >>>> Hi Listees, >> >>>> >> >>>> I have a quick question for the group and >> maybe >> >> someone >> >>>> here can shed >> >>>> some light on this subject.... >> >>>> >> >>>> Meteorites that do not have find >> coordinates or >> >> have >> >>>> falsified find >> >>>> coordinates are typically given the >> "Nova" >> >> designation by >> >>>> NonCom or if >> >>>> they are from Northwest Africa, they are >> given the >> >> "NWA" >> >>>> designation. >> >>>> In a handful of cases, a named meteorite >> was later >> >> changed >> >>>> to a "Nova" >> >>>> because it was discovered that the find >> >> coordinates were >> >>>> incorrect or >> >>>> dubious. >> >>>> >> >>>> So, why after all of these years does the >> Sahara >> >> xxxxx >> >>>> finds (mostly >> >>>> Labenne finds) are not referred to as >> "NWA" or >> >>>> "Nova"? It is >> >>>> well-known that the find coordinates on >> the many >> >> of these >> >>>> Labenne >> >>>> Sahara finds are falsified, which has hurt >> science >> >> and the >> >>>> provenance >> >>>> of the specimens. To this day, over >> a decade >> >> later, >> >>>> the true find >> >>>> coordinates of these specimens have not >> been >> >> revealed and >> >>>> probably >> >>>> will never be revealed. >> >>>> >> >>>> Can someone explain the double-standard at >> work >> >> here? Is it because >> >>>> of the pioneering work and >> otherwise-respectable >> >> work that >> >>>> the >> >>>> Labennes have done - despite the >> falsification of >> >> the find >> >>>> locations? >> >>>> Why do these Sahara finds get special >> treatment, >> >> while >> >>>> other finds >> >>>> with dubious locations are lumped under >> "NWA" or >> >> "Nova" ? >> >>>> I realize the NWA designation did not >> exist when >> >> the Sahara >> >>>> finds were >> >>>> accepted by NonCom, but shouldn't they now >> receive >> >> the >> >>>> Nova >> >>>> designation? In fact, the NWA >> designation >> >> was >> >>>> created, in part, due >> >>>> to the confusion created by the Sahara >> >> finds. So why >> >>>> do they still >> >>>> get a special place in nomenclature after >> all of >> >> this >> >>>> time? >> >>>> >> >>>> Best regards, >> >>>> >> >>>> MikeG >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic >> Stone& Ironworks >> >> Meteorites >> >>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com >> >>>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone >> >>>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 >> >>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone >> >>>> Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com >> >>>> EOM - >> >>>> http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 >> >>>> >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> >> ______________________________________________ >> >>>> Visit the Archives at >> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> >>> Visit the Archives at >> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > Visit the Archives at >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> >> ______________________________________________ >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 -----------------------------------------------------------------------Received on Sun 19 Dec 2010 12:30:09 PM PST |
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