[meteorite-list] Regarding list content

From: Göran Axelsson <axelsson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:11:21 +0200
Message-ID: <4A65B069.1070301_at_acc.umu.se>

I have a similar experience.

I bought a large NWA 869 full slice, half a kilo, on ebay with buy it now.
At that time he didn't have a working paypal account so I had to send
the money by mail.
After a while he started to complaining that I hadn't paid the
meteorite. Finally the letter returned as he had moved to another
address and not updated his ebay account. I then tried to get the
correct address but he stopped answering my email but I finally got his
address on the list.
I really wanted that slice for my collection and for showing people when
I work as a guide on the local observatory, so I sent the money again
registered.
He received the money and kept it but told me that the slice was gone. I
finally found out what happened, he sold it to Michael Blood for $200
and Michael had sold it on before I contacted him.

Just to keep it clear, Michael Blood haven't done anything wrong and was
very helpful to me when I tried to track my meteorite.

So today I have nothing positive to say about Chicago-Steve, he took my
money and sold my meteorite to Michael and where my meteorite is today I
have no clue.

/G?ran

Martin Altmann wrote:
> Well Elton,
>
> there I have a different opinion than you, as I want to protect our
> collectors, especially the new ones, from fraud.
>
> I know of four cases, where Chicago-Steve distributed meteorites, which were
> not that, what he claimed they are. In one case it was even a fake and no
> meteorite at all. In two cases he was informed before, that the pieces were
> not authentic, but that didn't kept him off from selling the pieces.
>
> I have at least 3 cases, where collectors here in Germany had troubles with
> him, because he refused to ship the meteorites, they had won in his
> auctions, because he wasn't content with the result.
>
> The same problem I had once with him too.
>
> Furthermore he purchased an expensive specimen from me,
> didn't pay for a long time, and asked then for being allowed to pay in
> instalments over a long period (more than a year), because of a private
> emergency case.
> I accepted, as such things can happen. Only a short time later I saw him
> boasting on the list, what for specimens he just had purchased in Tucson.
> And additionally I saw him holding the highest bids on ebay-auctions with a
> total of 3000$.
>
> In my personal opinion he falls in the same category like a Turecki or an
> Evans
> and therefore I'll continue to give to the collectors the recommendation not
> to buy from him and to my colleagues not to sell to him, because you can't
> know whether he will play fast and loose with your name, your specimens or
> your specimen's cards.
>
> That said,
> I will agree with you, Elton, and won't say a word anymore to that person.
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mr EMan
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2009 12:49
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Greg Catterton
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Regarding list content
>
>
> If you are thinking about responding to the "Freebies" string please
> consider this before you make your final decision. I love you all one way
> or another, Peace.
> Elton
>
> This is for everyone on both sides: This is not per se about the source of
> the conflict but the way the members deal with it on the list. I am not
> doing this for him or too him I am trying to get us past a no win conflict.
> Most of us here are united in a common love for the passion of meteorites
> only we express that love in different ways that seem to be in conflict. I
> railed against a particular thing here( no not fusion crust on irons)
> because I felt threatened and I felt the hobby was threatened. Something
> woke me up and I no longer feel I need to protect others that join. Their
> passion will either live or die by their own decisions. I don't have to
> mentor them nor steer away from traps and scams. I no longer feel a need to
> rescue folks even when they don't want rescued. that said what I am saying
> next will seem an oxymoron.
>
> Regarding list discussion on a macro-level: If folks are going to defend
> him on the list, then it is only fair that we allow on the list also a full
> disclosure of the reasons he is despised. The personality alluded to is
> sophisticated and plays games by selectively showing bi-polar sides of his
> true nature. To defend the "good-side" without knowledge if the other side
> is disingenuous. I'd rather not even discuss either facet on the list,
> feeling anyone that wants to know the whole story is free to ask and those
> that don't are on their own to experience the hobby land mines and all
>
> Likewise no matter how offensive and cheated others may feel, to rage
> against the person is only feeding their reason for acting out. It took me a
> while to relearn what I already knew. There is no way to win other than to
> not play his game.
>
> I am sure those that only knew Dr Jekyll thought him a sweet cuddly harmless
> character too. If your opinion is that this is the sole nature of the beast
> contact me off list and I'll be happy to show you to Mr Hyde's record. It is
> just what it is and we collectively should deal with it in a fashion that
> causes the least controversy. When raged to pen off a rebuke remember if the
> person behind the other screen cannot control his illness, social reward and
> punishment has already been tried here and failed--do you really think you
> can control it--especially with all the enablers ready to step in? As
> counter-intuitive as it seems, any attention positive or negative is
> rewarding the behavior. I am asking everyone in the light of this knowledge
> to ignore his presence. Defending him, attacking him, enabling him,
> responding to him--yes in writing him for his freebies you are rewarding his
> style. If we really care about the list then everyone including the
> spoilers, please be totally neutral for 2 weeks at first and see if we can
> make it another 2 weeks at a time.
>
> So I ask everyone to not feed any of the monkeys by giving them attention on
> the list. I'd rather tolerate the occasional posting than fight in a no win
> contest. (Cage cleaning assignments have been posted)
>
> So I will not have to ever bring this up again and violate my own admonition
> about discussing IT. I need someone willing to provide a notarized
> statement/affidavit who was an eye witness to a specific someones presence
> in Tucson in February for a certain pending fraud case to go forward. Please
> contact me off list.
>
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Received on Tue 21 Jul 2009 08:11:21 AM PDT