[meteorite-list] Regarding list content

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:31:03 +0200
Message-ID: <004501ca09f6$bb3a5ed0$177f2a59_at_name86d88d87e2>

Well Elton,

there I have a different opinion than you, as I want to protect our
collectors, especially the new ones, from fraud.

I know of four cases, where Chicago-Steve distributed meteorites, which were
not that, what he claimed they are. In one case it was even a fake and no
meteorite at all. In two cases he was informed before, that the pieces were
not authentic, but that didn't kept him off from selling the pieces.

I have at least 3 cases, where collectors here in Germany had troubles with
him, because he refused to ship the meteorites, they had won in his
auctions, because he wasn't content with the result.

The same problem I had once with him too.
  
Furthermore he purchased an expensive specimen from me,
didn't pay for a long time, and asked then for being allowed to pay in
instalments over a long period (more than a year), because of a private
emergency case.
I accepted, as such things can happen. Only a short time later I saw him
boasting on the list, what for specimens he just had purchased in Tucson.
And additionally I saw him holding the highest bids on ebay-auctions with a
total of 3000$.

In my personal opinion he falls in the same category like a Turecki or an
Evans
and therefore I'll continue to give to the collectors the recommendation not
to buy from him and to my colleagues not to sell to him, because you can't
know whether he will play fast and loose with your name, your specimens or
your specimen's cards.

That said,
I will agree with you, Elton, and won't say a word anymore to that person.

Best!
Martin




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mr EMan
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2009 12:49
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Greg Catterton
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Regarding list content


If you are thinking about responding to the "Freebies" string please
consider this before you make your final decision. I love you all one way
or another, Peace.
Elton

This is for everyone on both sides: This is not per se about the source of
the conflict but the way the members deal with it on the list. I am not
doing this for him or too him I am trying to get us past a no win conflict.
Most of us here are united in a common love for the passion of meteorites
only we express that love in different ways that seem to be in conflict. I
railed against a particular thing here( no not fusion crust on irons)
because I felt threatened and I felt the hobby was threatened. Something
woke me up and I no longer feel I need to protect others that join. Their
passion will either live or die by their own decisions. I don't have to
mentor them nor steer away from traps and scams. I no longer feel a need to
rescue folks even when they don't want rescued. that said what I am saying
next will seem an oxymoron.

Regarding list discussion on a macro-level: If folks are going to defend
him on the list, then it is only fair that we allow on the list also a full
disclosure of the reasons he is despised. The personality alluded to is
sophisticated and plays games by selectively showing bi-polar sides of his
true nature. To defend the "good-side" without knowledge if the other side
is disingenuous. I'd rather not even discuss either facet on the list,
feeling anyone that wants to know the whole story is free to ask and those
that don't are on their own to experience the hobby land mines and all

 Likewise no matter how offensive and cheated others may feel, to rage
against the person is only feeding their reason for acting out. It took me a
while to relearn what I already knew. There is no way to win other than to
not play his game.

I am sure those that only knew Dr Jekyll thought him a sweet cuddly harmless
character too. If your opinion is that this is the sole nature of the beast
contact me off list and I'll be happy to show you to Mr Hyde's record. It is
just what it is and we collectively should deal with it in a fashion that
causes the least controversy. When raged to pen off a rebuke remember if the
person behind the other screen cannot control his illness, social reward and
punishment has already been tried here and failed--do you really think you
can control it--especially with all the enablers ready to step in? As
counter-intuitive as it seems, any attention positive or negative is
rewarding the behavior. I am asking everyone in the light of this knowledge
to ignore his presence. Defending him, attacking him, enabling him,
responding to him--yes in writing him for his freebies you are rewarding his
style. If we really care about the list then everyone including the
 spoilers, please be totally neutral for 2 weeks at first and see if we can
make it another 2 weeks at a time.

So I ask everyone to not feed any of the monkeys by giving them attention on
the list. I'd rather tolerate the occasional posting than fight in a no win
contest. (Cage cleaning assignments have been posted)

So I will not have to ever bring this up again and violate my own admonition
about discussing IT. I need someone willing to provide a notarized
statement/affidavit who was an eye witness to a specific someones presence
in Tucson in February for a certain pending fraud case to go forward. Please
contact me off list.

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Tue 21 Jul 2009 07:31:03 AM PDT