[meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

From: mexicodoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:07:16 -0500
Message-ID: <013c01c812ad$32fc0b00$4001a8c0_at_MICASA>

Hi Jan,

Man, I can imagine! Thanks for the colorful insight for your adventures
Jan! Anyway, 'Desag' is just another border town like border towns
everywhere as far as it sounds. You've got to admit, there must have been
some enlightening moments that evening after such a tiring day?! Next time
you are in town, please join Sterling and myself. Those naughty youths
might even pay a hotel to come haul us out:-)

Best wishes and thanks for your kind and understandable clarification. I'm
sure the inhabitants are Aymara, too. The con artists are just trying to
find a better life as hard as that is to accept for a tourist who needs to
be vigilent for their own good. When your back is against the wall and the
cards are down and you feel abandoned, whether of Aymara, or European
origin, I'd do a wild guess that anyone who isn't stuck in the area by
birth is unlikely to stick around too long...

Best wishes,
Doug


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Hattenbach" <jan.hattenbach at web.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS


Hi Dough,

thanks. There's just one thing with the people, I did not explain clearly,
so this is my fault. I want to distinguish between the people of Carancas
(Aymara), who live as farmers and were very friendly to me and also very
clever...they knew what they were selling - and *some* people in Desaguadero
(possibly Aymara as well) who were seeking their fortune in drinking and in
trying to squeeze the money out of me. Unfortunately, I arrived in Desag at
2 a.m. and had to spent quite some hours with the local youth, and this was
definitively not my very best time... But since I know the bars in Desag, I
know the word "filthy" better than before!

Greets,

Jan


> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Gesendet: 20.10.07 00:41:15
> An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS


>
> Hi Jan,
>
> No problem at all, I just think this is too complicated than most are
> willing to realize, including poverty as I have been reminded as well, and
> the framework under which the list as a group (we can't single out anyone
> in
> particular as we are in this together) has painted of the locality. hah!
> as
> if these problems of corruption were unique to this little corner of the
> world, right.
>
> I had no problem with your post, but its content suggested * to me * a
> slight double standard, that is all, nothing personal. Most people on
> this
> list say what they mean in an unadulterated fashion as you already saw and
> most of us are all too familiar with.
>
> I would never blame the Aymara for anything, * especially * for not being
> themselves. This, by the way, includes not running to the crater and
> pushing everyone else out of the way to get their God-given endowment, and
> then not feeling envious, etc. of those who did. So please reconsider
> your
> thinking about anything being their fault. I could be wrong, but these
> are
> probably not part of their cultural upbringings, schooled or not, and they
> deserve our respect for that. They certainly have mine.
>
> I don't have any qualms with calling a dirty place: dirty, either, and I
> am
> sure there are a long list of reasons that have caused this. As far as the
> "lost value" you mention, this is an even more complicated question that
> makes my head hurt, my best solution would be to crack open Porter and to
> say it looks like I will never have the opportunity to possess this
> meteorite.
>
> Porter aside, it reminds me of a Sufi story I heard as a tyke.
> Mulla Nasarudin saw a group of men (possibly horsemen or soldiers), he
> panicked and found a pit jumped down to hide inside, and worried terribly
> what that would do to him. Unfortunately for him, he began shaking, as he
> did not escape their notice. They hastily came over, from above the pit
> one
> voice yelled down as he was terrorized, "Sir, what ?n earth are you doing
> down there? The Mulla answered, That, my friend, is not a simple question.
> I am here because you are there ... I wish I could see the text of this
> wonderful tale somewhere ...
>
> Best health, and above all WELCOME, and thanks for your perspectives as
> well!
> And for putting up with my ramblings,
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Hattenbach" <jan.hattenbach at web.de>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug"
> <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
>
>
> Hi Dough, list,
>
> yes, I understand that the list may have got a rather negative impression
> of
> Peru due to these very ugly experience Mike and his colleagues had to
> encounter. I live in Peru and visited Desaguadero and Carancas myself and
> had to make some bad experience too with people trying to rip me off
> there.
> It was not quite as dangerous as it was for Mike because I kept myself in
> the background. After reading Mikes report, I was glad I did so. And, like
> it or not, Desaguadero *is* a filthy place.
>
> Nevertheless, remember Mikes report, it was not the townspeople of
> Carancas
> he had his problems with. It was the corrupt police of Desaguadero - and
> corruption really is perhaps the biggest problem of this country. The
> people
> of Carancas were trying the best they could from this unique incident, who
> could blame them for that?
>
> Maybe some folks in Desaquadero are now beginning to realize what
> opportunity they missed. There was a stone with a value more than gold
> falling from the sky, and who got it? Some US-Americans, some guys from
> Bolivia and a German! But that is their own fault. Why couldn't the same
> people who did what they could to get as much money out of me (I had a
> nice
> little fight in spanish - words only) use their energy to get that stones
> that were lying around for a week just before their noses, and make money
> out of them? Call it lack of education or whatever, but it is sad to say:
> if
> no strangers would have gone there, most of the meteorites may have just
> been thrown away! The news was in the media in Peru for days, and they do
> have TV, radio, internet and newspapers and are able to use it, if they
> like. Most people here did know what happened.
>
> It is a shame what happened to Mike, and it is a even bigger shame for
> Peru
> what is happening to the (presumed) main mass, but there is still no
> reason
> to insult the people of this town or country in general. It's rather
> something to think about what is going wrong in this world.
>
> BTW: I am new to this list and I appeciate the interresting information
> and
> opinions I found here! Thanks a lot for that!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jan
>
> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> > Gesendet: 19.10.07 20:37:20
> > An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
>
>
> >
> > Hi David, Bob and Jan, List,
> >
> > David - There has been a cold war going on down there to define who has
> > rights to market alcoholic drinks called "Pisco" (If you don't think
> > this
> > is
> > important - very seriously-, think again!!!), and the fight for control
> > portions of the sea between Peru and Chile is still ablating. It isn't
> > the
> > village that is of interest. It is the fight for land and sea, and
> > national
> > pride. The land of the Desaguadero River where the fall is, is near the
> > outlet to the ocean that Chile appropriated in war victory against
> > Bolivia/Peru and I suspect that unofficial military activities are
> > common
> > in
> > that zone, as well as a state of alert on both sides, and also that
> > there
> > is
> > an underlying fear from this. As outsiders from this conflict, the best
> > we
> > can imagine...
> >
> > Jan - As you say (most of us including you could) think before we post,
> > too,
> > though I don't object to your post either. The very few prior comments
> > you
> > have made seem very educated, so I really wonder, why hadn't you said
> > anything throughout the barrage of bashing of people, corruption and the
> > "filth" there, and now not expect that this impression is prevalent and
> > accepted by a lot of list members? This is an exotic and majestic area
> > to
> > visit, though lacking in hygene by the cultural standards of many
> > outsiders.
> > The list has been fixated on the negative and a meteoric attention span.
> > Why don't you ask what Bob Haag about his recent vacation in the
> > wonderful
> > area, he probably has seen enough in his life to give a different
> > perspective on their hygene and culture.
> >
> > Bob W. - David off the list? Eighty-six that possee!
> >
> > Best wishes and health,
> > Doug
> >
> > Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother.
> > See
> > those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there
> > when
> > you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas
> > arguing
> > over who owns the dog they live on.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Weir" <dgweir at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Bob WALKER" <qwalkra2 at optusnet.com.au>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> >
> >
> > > If Art removes me I'll be happy to leave. It's people like you who
> > > make
> > > me
> > > vomit all over this "LIST". And don't ever visit my website which
> > > contains
> > > a quarter of a million words bringing the most current meteorite
> > > research
> > > to those interested, including total morons like you. You are hereby
> > > forbidden to visit it. I do not want to contribute anything else to
> > > this
> > > LIST or to you, you small-brained idiot. Kiss my ass!
> > >
> > > David
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
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Received on Fri 19 Oct 2007 08:07:16 PM PDT