[meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS

From: Jan Hattenbach <jan.hattenbach_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 01:04:32 +0200
Message-ID: <1843427319_at_web.de>

Hi Dough,

thanks. There's just one thing with the people, I did not explain clearly, so this is my fault. I want to distinguish between the people of Carancas (Aymara), who live as farmers and were very friendly to me and also very clever...they knew what they were selling - and *some* people in Desaguadero (possibly Aymara as well) who were seeking their fortune in drinking and in trying to squeeze the money out of me. Unfortunately, I arrived in Desag at 2 a.m. and had to spent quite some hours with the local youth, and this was definitively not my very best time... But since I know the bars in Desag, I know the word "filthy" better than before!

Greets,

Jan

  
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Gesendet: 20.10.07 00:41:15
> An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS


>
> Hi Jan,
>
> No problem at all, I just think this is too complicated than most are
> willing to realize, including poverty as I have been reminded as well, and
> the framework under which the list as a group (we can't single out anyone in
> particular as we are in this together) has painted of the locality. hah! as
> if these problems of corruption were unique to this little corner of the
> world, right.
>
> I had no problem with your post, but its content suggested * to me * a
> slight double standard, that is all, nothing personal. Most people on this
> list say what they mean in an unadulterated fashion as you already saw and
> most of us are all too familiar with.
>
> I would never blame the Aymara for anything, * especially * for not being
> themselves. This, by the way, includes not running to the crater and
> pushing everyone else out of the way to get their God-given endowment, and
> then not feeling envious, etc. of those who did. So please reconsider your
> thinking about anything being their fault. I could be wrong, but these are
> probably not part of their cultural upbringings, schooled or not, and they
> deserve our respect for that. They certainly have mine.
>
> I don't have any qualms with calling a dirty place: dirty, either, and I am
> sure there are a long list of reasons that have caused this. As far as the
> "lost value" you mention, this is an even more complicated question that
> makes my head hurt, my best solution would be to crack open Porter and to
> say it looks like I will never have the opportunity to possess this
> meteorite.
>
> Porter aside, it reminds me of a Sufi story I heard as a tyke.
> Mulla Nasarudin saw a group of men (possibly horsemen or soldiers), he
> panicked and found a pit jumped down to hide inside, and worried terribly
> what that would do to him. Unfortunately for him, he began shaking, as he
> did not escape their notice. They hastily came over, from above the pit one
> voice yelled down as he was terrorized, "Sir, what ?n earth are you doing
> down there? The Mulla answered, That, my friend, is not a simple question.
> I am here because you are there ... I wish I could see the text of this
> wonderful tale somewhere ...
>
> Best health, and above all WELCOME, and thanks for your perspectives as
> well!
> And for putting up with my ramblings,
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Hattenbach" <jan.hattenbach at web.de>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
>
>
> Hi Dough, list,
>
> yes, I understand that the list may have got a rather negative impression of
> Peru due to these very ugly experience Mike and his colleagues had to
> encounter. I live in Peru and visited Desaguadero and Carancas myself and
> had to make some bad experience too with people trying to rip me off there.
> It was not quite as dangerous as it was for Mike because I kept myself in
> the background. After reading Mikes report, I was glad I did so. And, like
> it or not, Desaguadero *is* a filthy place.
>
> Nevertheless, remember Mikes report, it was not the townspeople of Carancas
> he had his problems with. It was the corrupt police of Desaguadero - and
> corruption really is perhaps the biggest problem of this country. The people
> of Carancas were trying the best they could from this unique incident, who
> could blame them for that?
>
> Maybe some folks in Desaquadero are now beginning to realize what
> opportunity they missed. There was a stone with a value more than gold
> falling from the sky, and who got it? Some US-Americans, some guys from
> Bolivia and a German! But that is their own fault. Why couldn't the same
> people who did what they could to get as much money out of me (I had a nice
> little fight in spanish - words only) use their energy to get that stones
> that were lying around for a week just before their noses, and make money
> out of them? Call it lack of education or whatever, but it is sad to say: if
> no strangers would have gone there, most of the meteorites may have just
> been thrown away! The news was in the media in Peru for days, and they do
> have TV, radio, internet and newspapers and are able to use it, if they
> like. Most people here did know what happened.
>
> It is a shame what happened to Mike, and it is a even bigger shame for Peru
> what is happening to the (presumed) main mass, but there is still no reason
> to insult the people of this town or country in general. It's rather
> something to think about what is going wrong in this world.
>
> BTW: I am new to this list and I appeciate the interresting information and
> opinions I found here! Thanks a lot for that!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jan
>
> > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: "mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com>
> > Gesendet: 19.10.07 20:37:20
> > An: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
>
>
> >
> > Hi David, Bob and Jan, List,
> >
> > David - There has been a cold war going on down there to define who has
> > rights to market alcoholic drinks called "Pisco" (If you don't think this
> > is
> > important - very seriously-, think again!!!), and the fight for control
> > portions of the sea between Peru and Chile is still ablating. It isn't
> > the
> > village that is of interest. It is the fight for land and sea, and
> > national
> > pride. The land of the Desaguadero River where the fall is, is near the
> > outlet to the ocean that Chile appropriated in war victory against
> > Bolivia/Peru and I suspect that unofficial military activities are common
> > in
> > that zone, as well as a state of alert on both sides, and also that there
> > is
> > an underlying fear from this. As outsiders from this conflict, the best
> > we
> > can imagine...
> >
> > Jan - As you say (most of us including you could) think before we post,
> > too,
> > though I don't object to your post either. The very few prior comments
> > you
> > have made seem very educated, so I really wonder, why hadn't you said
> > anything throughout the barrage of bashing of people, corruption and the
> > "filth" there, and now not expect that this impression is prevalent and
> > accepted by a lot of list members? This is an exotic and majestic area to
> > visit, though lacking in hygene by the cultural standards of many
> > outsiders.
> > The list has been fixated on the negative and a meteoric attention span.
> > Why don't you ask what Bob Haag about his recent vacation in the wonderful
> > area, he probably has seen enough in his life to give a different
> > perspective on their hygene and culture.
> >
> > Bob W. - David off the list? Eighty-six that possee!
> >
> > Best wishes and health,
> > Doug
> >
> > Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother.
> > See
> > those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there
> > when
> > you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas
> > arguing
> > over who owns the dog they live on.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Weir" <dgweir at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Bob WALKER" <qwalkra2 at optusnet.com.au>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] INTERVIEW WITH CARANCAS LOCALS
> >
> >
> > > If Art removes me I'll be happy to leave. It's people like you who make
> > > me
> > > vomit all over this "LIST". And don't ever visit my website which
> > > contains
> > > a quarter of a million words bringing the most current meteorite
> > > research
> > > to those interested, including total morons like you. You are hereby
> > > forbidden to visit it. I do not want to contribute anything else to this
> > > LIST or to you, you small-brained idiot. Kiss my ass!
> > >
> > > David
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
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Received on Fri 19 Oct 2007 07:04:32 PM PDT