[meteorite-list] OT: to Bernd

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed Mar 8 22:11:41 2006
Message-ID: <006f01c64327$2c052cc0$936cfea9_at_name86d88d87e2>

Hello Bernd,

reread my email and look a little bit further back.

First of all Matteo, to say it friendly "doubted" the new announced
Barzilian meteorite - beside that his dictionary or his automatic translator
may spit out defamations, backstabbing, humiliation and perhaps some
unpleasant expressions, he was also putting the integrity of other persons
in question, additionally claiming (the meanwhile analyzed) meteorite to be
a fake and called a list member "poor idiot".

For you this behaviour may be tolerable, for me Matteo's outbursts are not
the salt in the soup but rather a hair.

When other members adumbrated that he might be not exactly in the position
to call meteorites from others in question for certain reasons,
we all were asked for a dance by Matteo to tell the facts about Tessera,
" I want the proves" "or shut up and close the
mouths!", else we belong to that category, which he calls "idiots".

Nothing else I did in my mail.
I told the 3 known facts, which clearly exclude, that Tessera was that, what
Matteo claimed it should be.

The other 3 points I set in brackets and marked them clearly as my own
speculations, for what he could call me, what he wants,
but which in my eyes come automatically to a mind of any logically talented
person and which do not even increase the plausibility of the authenticity
of Tessera.

In this mail I avoided nasty names, nor did I use direct accusations, but
asked the reader to come to his/her own conclusions. In my eyes this post
had not the character of an insinuation, but was - for my temperament -
objective.

It was btw not posted with the title concerning Wabar and Henbury.

The mail I sent you last night wasn't an especially secret one,
imediately after I sent it, I posted the link to Mark's Tessera site on the
list too,
where also the qualified statement of Dieter Heinlein is to be found
(and, Bernd, don't forget, that according Matteo's emails right here on the
list, we would have to call Dieter and the expert of the lab in Cologne
"idiots"),
and where Mark collected a lot of opinions and qualified statements about
Tessera in one place.

Well, and who says, that I wouldn't have won the bet? Still Matteo can
answer. But I have to chip in, that the discussion about Tessera is not new
and we had it a time ago on the list, if you'll take a look in the archives.

"Matteo the Mouth" was a recurrence on his own email, where he summoned the
list members to come up with facts (as I did) or to "shut up and close the
mouths". Now we wait for his facts...

Darren's History of Earth I found stringent and funny.

My reply on Susan's email was perhaps a little bit tasteless, but maybe I
can calm you, when I'm telling you that if you were baptized according the
rites of the 2 christian main denominations here in Germany, you already had
to abide an exorcism, as the wordings for baptizing, the priest tells,
contain an exorcism formula (all boys in Bavaria were altar servers, me too,
so I know that).

So, now to the beef, why I felt compelled at all to answer to Matteo's
emails on the list?
First of all I can't reply privately, as he said, he had blocked my address.

But the main reason is, that Matteo has an affection to misbehave here on
the list, I guess several of the members observed it too.
I'm very patient, but after sume years, I lost the comprehension, why he
should have the privilege to do so - for some it may be entertaining, for
most, I guess, it isn't.
Well, now remember last year. Matteo was frequently disturbing the sales of
collectors and dealers here on the list, in blaming them to ask exaggerated
prices, telling how much cheaper he acquired the same localities, but never
he was able to offer the same locality more affordable.
So I once demonstrated on the list (I think in November), going over a part
of his assortment, that in many cases he was ways more expensive then others
and that to each of his piece a much cheaper alternative could be found at
other dealers.

As explosive he is, he learned! It helped and since then, as far as I
followed the list, only once since then, he complained again and he was all
in all very well behaving in that respect.
Thus I was confident, that with my posting now, he could be prompted not to
continue to disregard other members or meteoriticist without backing with
facts at least.
If he achieves that, then he will be a respected and agreeable member of the
list, and we don't mind if he rides from time to time a tournament with
Farmer, do we?

"Martin, why does a man of your intelligence...", well, if that was a
compliment, don't be so sure about. From those lines you can read that I'm
more arrogant than intelligent
and if I would be intelligent, I never would try to be a meteorite
dealer....

But to fully please you, I will try to use that list in future only if I
have smth essential to contribute, which really didn't happen so often and
perhaps sporadically for ads.

Buckleboo.
Martin



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces_at_meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
bernd.pauli_at_paulinet.de
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. M?rz 2006 23:22
An: Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Henbury - Wabar History

Original mail:

"Hello I need a short history of the Henbury and Wabar meteorites. Thanks
Matteo"

I can see a "hello" to the List and a "thanks", ... my rating: polite and
friendly

First response:

"Buy the Catalog of Meteorites or the Handbook of Meteorites."

Neither friendly nor unfriendly but you feel the "cool distance".

Matteo's reaction, part 1, slightly corrected translation - I hope Matteo
doesn't mind:

"too much few (= the information is not comprehensive enough) .... (what) I
need (is)
a history with information on the craters (that were found) and of the
meteorites."

Any offence, any insinuations, any attacks? I can't detect any!

Matteo's reaction, part 2:

"Farmer, if you (had) only seen what (a wonderful) piece of Henbury has
just arrived. Uhauhauha ... I say only its a end piece of 2.14 kg. Matteo"

Well, as Mikes will state in a future mail, it is one his former pieces and
Matteo
only wanted to express it is a beautiful piece. No more no less (as I see
it!)

Mike Farmer:

"I jut sold an individual of 10 kilos to a list member. So
I am not that envious Matteo. Congrats though. Mike"

Appropriate reaction with regard to the congrats but I don't think Matteo
wanted
to arouse anybody's, and above all, not Mike Farmer's envy, especially
because
the piece seems to come from Mike Farmer! (provided I get things right!)

Matteo: "mmmmmm its write Mike Farmer collection...... Matteo!

Mike Farmer:

"No Matteo, it was in my collection, I sold it."

That's splitting hairs, Mike. We all know, and it is NOT a shame that
Matteo's
English is not perfect (mine isn't either - you don't have to tell me ;-)

Mike Farmer:

" You are the man, the shiznit, da bomb, you are the top collector in the
world.
Maybe the Pope will make you a saint?"

Now it is getting aggressive, and it's not Matteo who started it (unless
there were
private mails off-list, which I don't know, of course!)

Mike Farmer:

"I congratulated you, and you harass me. What else is new? Mike"

What with? .. again I don't know if he sent you any private mails that are
offensive.
If he did he had better stop. If he did not I can't see you being harassed
by him.

Darren:

"Well, first the Earth cooled. First the earth cooled. And then the
dinosaurs came,
but they got too big and fat, so they all died and they turned into oil. And
then the
Arabs came and they bought Mercedes Benzes. And Prince Charles started
wearing all of Lady Di's clothes."

I am pretty sure that no one on the List would appreciate receiving such
foolish
mails from me or anyone else. It will only lead to an escalation of the
situation.
As there was nothing unfriendly about Matteo's first mail, I don't
understand what
such a mail can do!

Matteo (who ignored the preceding mail - good he did so!):

"Farmer, you (only) see the negativity in all messages
...I am already a holy one, look the 21 September....

"I am already a holy one" ... probably something went wrong when this was
translated
from Italian into English.

Buckleboo's (inappropriate) response:

"The Bavarian Pope would suggest an exorcism first, before he would do so."

On the one hand, a translation mistake, on the other "exorcism" ???

" ... Matteo the Mouth, ..."

Martin, would you like to be called "Martin, the Mouth" in an open forum???

Martin: "wouldn't answer to the Tessera mail, lucky me that I didn't accept"

Don't be too fast with such "insinuations" - maybe it will take Matteo a bit
more
time to respond to such "accusations". If I had trouble expressing myself in
English and if I was exposed to such aggressiveness, I would grow wary.

Martin, why does a man of your intelligence stoop to such a low, mean level?
You don't have to send me private emails (as you did tonight). I won't
answer
them. You, and others, attack another list member in public so I don't see
any
reason why I should respond behind the curtains.

The person Martin referred to in his private mail is a very respectable,
knowledgeable,
and competent member of our meteoritical community and I have no reason to
doubt
his words (objective words!) but, he too, is very, very careful about direct
accusations.

I don't know if Matteo did find these meteorites or if it is a hoax. If he
did find them ... good!
if he didn't ... bad and nothing to be proud of! But if anyone (whoever it
is) politely asks for
information on Wabar and Henbury, I would expect those who have something to
offer to
do just that. Or should I (from now on) first look at who needs information
and then decide
I should or should not share it because I don't like them for something they
did at some point
during the past 8 years?

This List is at is best when we cooperate, when we help each other.
Objective criticism is
absolutely OK, ... defamations, backstabbing, humiliation, degrading
people's ego is NOT!

And, just in case, you folks out there, didn't know, the only meteorite that
I
have ever purchased from Matteo, was a smallish 2.3-gram NWA 900. What I
want
to tell you is that there is no personal (meteoritical) motif or motivation
for
me to write these lines ... !

Bernd

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Received on Wed 08 Mar 2006 10:11:32 PM PST