[meteorite-list] Mutha Stone

From: dean bessey <deanbessey_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat Dec 31 03:37:28 2005
Message-ID: <20051231083725.45706.qmail_at_web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For everybodys info Russia is indeed a member of
UNESCO (See #141 on the list at this URL)
http://erc.unesco.org/cp/MSList_alpha.asp?lg=E
In fact pretty much every country is a member
including Morocco and the United States.
It seems odd to me that one would immeadiately
discount all Chinese meteorites because it is a UNESCO
member and that there is a law prohibiting the export
of fossils (But never seeing anything about
meteorites) but have no problem with Russian
meteorites without even investigating the Russian law
even though everybody is well aware that a big pile of
Sikhotes were recently confiscated by Russian customs.
However, as with all the conflicting vague cultural
property laws that dont mean that exporting russian
meteorites is illegal (I believe the shipment was
confiscated because of an improper customs declaration
although I am not up on all the details).
It is not as adam says "up to the owners show legal
export papers" as they may not even be illegal to
export. And the export papers (Or lack of) may or may
not have any bearing inside the United states or other
countries - depending on every different countries
and vast array of cultural property laws.
In any event, it doesnt mean that something is illegal
just because the people exporting something falsifies
an export declaration (Although that is probably
illegal in itself but nothing to do with meteorites or
cultural property). Especially in a corrupt place like
china where it is rare that anything gets done without
a government official taking a bribe or a cut. I can
easily see somebody in China not wanting somebody in
customs to know that the shipment has value because of
an high probability that they will want a big bribe or
try and steal it on them.
Please note that I am not condoning or disapproving of
the situation in China (And I am certainly not
suggesting it was or wasnt done with the meteorite in
discussion).
But it still dont mean that anything done in china is
or isnt legal and nobody in this discussion knows
either. Wither they illegally left China dont
necessarily mean they are illegal in the USA anyway
(You would probably have to spend a lot of money on
legal fees to answer that question and even then there
could well be grey areas)
I should take this opportunity to apologize in my last
email to farmer and adam about adam trying to screw
farmer. Farmer said that there would be tons available
in tucson so I assumed that he would be selling it.
That doesnt mean that adam made the posting for any
reason other than to scare buyers and to make himself
look holy. It certainly wasnt to inform the public of
the exact legal situation involving the meteorite.
Remember also, even if it is illegal to export
cultural property from china it is perfectly legal to
export Chinese cultural property (Including those
illegal Dinosaur Egg fossils) from hong kong - which
is a part of China. You can imagine the overlapping
and conflicting laws involving that.
It is illy to make blanket statements that this is
legal or illegal.
Sincerely
DEAN















--- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net> wrote:

> John and List,
>
> I have no interest whatsoever in the Fukang
> pallasite. I do not and will not
> carry natural history items from China because while
> inquiring about them I
> was told by the most respectable sources that they
> are now illegal to
> export. If you are asking if I took the time to
> translate Chinese law, the
> answer is no. In my case, this would be a complete
> waste of time since I
> trust my sources both in the scientific and academic
> communities who now
> also have no interest in these items.
>
> I do not understand what Sikhote Alin has to do with
> any of this. I only
> market the finest examples I can find and Russia is
> not part of UNESCO group
> as far as I know. Trying to redirect our attention
> to another subject is a
> transparent way of avoiding the issue. I refuse to
> engage any more in this
> stupid string because, again, I never had and never
> will have any interest
> whatsoever in Fukang. Everybody seems to be taking
> it personally and
> getting angry about it for some reason. I guess I am
> the last of many to get
> caught in this Fukang spider web. It is up to the
> owners show legal export
> papers, not claim something is iron ore to get it
> out of a country.
>
> Enough said by me, if somebody else wants to
> continue this, you've got the
> green light,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arizona Skies Meteorites"
> <johnbirdsell_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mutha Stone
>
>
> > Hi Adam. It seems you evaded the majority of the
> > questions that were put to you. If you do have
> some
> > actual evidence to back up your claim that there
> is
> > some new Chinese "meteorite" law, then please
> share it
> > with us and the rest of the list members. We asked
> you
> > about the Sikhotes that you are selling. Aren't
> you
> > interested in the export laws governing them?
> >
> > As for why fukang is supposedly "not being
> > promoted", what are you talking about? Maybe
> you're
> > Rip Van Hupe and have been asleep for the last
> hundred
> > years or so, but just to bring you up to speed, we
> > purchased a small amount which we have been
> selling on
> > ebay and our website for over a year. We also have
> > made a number of announcements to this list
> > advertizing it, and I would think that you might
> have
> > seen them? As I recall, a very large slice was
> > recently offer by a major auction house,
> Butterfields,
> > did you miss out on that? Perhaps you missed out
> on
> > the fact that it was being sold all over the World
> at
> > all of the major shows including Tucson, Denver,
> > Munich and Tokyo? It has been said that the
> majority
> > of it is not going to be for sale-that was another
> > meteorite list posting, miss that one? We don't
> know
> > the owners of the mass that is for sale, but I'm
> > guessing that they may not want to sell it on
> ebay,
> > and may have their sights set on a more affluent
> > clientele. For all I know, they may be taking out
> full
> > page ads in Conde nast, have you checked it out
> lately
> > Adam? Personally, if it were me, I'd hire Geoff
> > Notkin, as he certainly did a great job with
> Brenham.
> >
> >
> > Now Adam can you please back up your claim or
> shall we
> > just drop it and go back to sleep?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > -John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > John and List Members,
> > >
> > > First of all, this is the very first time I have
> > > talked about Fukang
> > > publicly. If you read the string, you will see
> that
> > > another List member
> > > brought it up first. I have no interest at all
> in
> > > Chinese meteorites. I do
> > > not own a single meteorite from China nor have I
> > > ever sold one. My interest
> > > lies in legal fossils, minerals and meteorites.
> I
> > > have a contract with a
> > > startup company whom asks questions first and
> then
> > > purchases later. After
> > > investigating Chinese natural history goods we
> > > decided to stay away from
> > > them because, for the most part, they are
> considered
> > > black market (illegal)
> > > by legitimate concerns who will not touch them.
> > > What good is a product that
> > > is considered illegal by institutions and
> museums?
> > >
> > > You may want to tell the rest of the List why
> this
> > > is so. Why is it that the
> > > world's largest pallasite, supposedly as
> beautiful
> > > as Esquel is not being
> > > highly promoted by anybody who has any of it?
> Could
> > > it be a problem?
> > >
> > > The curious want to know,
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Arizona Skies Meteorites"
> > > <johnbirdsell_at_yahoo.com>
> > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mutha Stone
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Adam, that is an interesting question. It
> is
> > > > interesting because Chinese meteorites have
> been
> > > > exported from China for decades if not
> hundreds of
> > > > years. Chinese meteorites have been at all of
> the
> > > gem
> > > > and mineral shows across this country for
> decades.
> > > In
> > > > fact, I would go as far as to bet that every
> list
> > > > member has a Chinese meteorite or two in their
> > > > collection. How many do you have in your
> > > collection
> > > > Adam? I'm curious as to the motive for your
> sudden
> > > > "interest" in Chinese meteorites. The
> information
> > > that
> > > > we have received from reliable sources in
> China
>
=== message truncated ===



        
                
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Received on Sat 31 Dec 2005 03:37:25 AM PST