[meteorite-list] Re: solution to the number game

From: Comcast Mail <bobe5531_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Nov 21 20:48:20 2004
Message-ID: <002a01c4d035$55381780$6400a8c0_at_aoldsl.net>

Stan wrote:

- why not just include a notice
in your ebay description specifically and unequivically stating that the
material you are offering was not part of the nwa 1110 find that was
recoverd - however your source for the material has sold it to you as nwa
1110 and your personal expertise in the field of meteoritics leads you to
belive that the material is in fact the same meteorite as nwa 1110.

Well,

I believe ( I know this will not be the popular belief ) that whether a
meteorite is a find or a fall and has a NWA # or locality name there really
is no point in renaming specimens. If its the same meteorite ..... then its
the same meteorite.

I found over 300 Park Forest specimens ( individuals and fragments ) when it
fell.If anyone wants to see pics, I have them.
If I were the one to have supplied the initial sample for classification and
then Adam comes along and buys or finds additional specimens, I certainly
wouldnt tell him he has no right to call it Park Forest. Meteorite names and
NWA #'s are not proprietary. Thats something that Adam has to come to grips
with.


I mean this is absolutely ridiculous. Look at SAU 001 . many people have
recovered so many kilos of that stuff and nobody cares about using SAU 001.
Adam apparenty feels that these guidlines only apply to more rare
meteorites. I dont feel the same way.
Why wouldnt everyone have to include a notice in an ebay auction as you
stated above if they received specimens of any meteorite from the
strewnfield after the initial find?
Bob Evans
----- Original Message -----
From: stan . <laser_maniac_at_hotmail.com>
To: <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>; <bobe5531@comcast.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: solution to the number game


> Bob,
> If you want to sell your rocks as nwa 1110 - why not just include a notice
> in your ebay description specifically and unequivically stating that the
> material you are offering was not part of the nwa 1110 find that was
> recoverd - however your source for the material has sold it to you as nwa
> 1110 and your personal expertise in the field of meteoritics leads you to
> belive that the material is in fact the same meteorite as nwa 1110.
>
> that way there is proper disclosure. no one can say you are advetising
> something incorectly. to use this very specific example Adam doesnt have
to
> worry about colelctors out there thinking they have a piece of nwa 1110
when
> they infact dont. and the customer can make an informed decision. I do not
> see how it would hurt your sales any because in the end they are all based
> upon the market confidence in the source anyway. Infact you could even
> market it as a benifit for your customers as you didnt have to go through
> the expense of submitting material for classification - HOWEVER they will
> simply have to trust your judgemt in identifying that this tiny fragment
of
> rock really is a picritic shergotite and not a pebble that fell off of a
> cliff in washington state a few years ago.
>
> Meteorite numbers are much like slabbed coins. A pcgs ms65 high relief
> double eagle wil lsell for fair market value sight unseen. An unslabed
> ms-65 high relief from joe collector would not relize anywhere nearly as
> much, just like most collectors wouldnt spend 200$ a gram for a martian
> metoeirte that was simply a stone someone found on the side of the road
and
> decided to declare as comming from mars. However when you present your
> customer with good, solid information as to the legitimacy of your claims
in
> offering that gem of a coin you will see that the realized price will
start
> to aproach that of what one might get if it were slabed. Same thing with
> meteorites.
>
> comments anyone?
>
>
>
> >From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
> >To: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> >CC: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:08:54 -0800
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >It is very simple, send a type specimen to NAU or any other NomCom
> >authorized laboratory and I will recognize your material when the NomCom
> >assigns it an official NWA number. Using the numbers NWA 1110 and NWA
1877
> >will never be acceptable because the material has already been voted on.
> >
> >It is a simple matter, send in a type specimen and all the fragments.
The
> >fragments will be visually compared to the type specimen by a competent
> >scientist. If a qualified scientist argues to the NomCom they are all
the
> >same and the NomCom votes that this is ok they will all be assigned an
> >official number. Every fragment in the NWA 1110 batch was looked at by
Dr.
> >Irving, submitted to the NomCom and a number was assigned to cover the
118
> >grams of fragments, not a gram more.
> >
> >I am not authorized to compare material and make official judgements and
> >neither is Mike. All we can do is offer an opinion. In the case of a
fall
> >the NomCom rules are different.
> >
> >Here is link to explain how you can make your unclassified and
un-numbered
> >material official:
> >
> >http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~glg100-p/Meteorite.html
> >
> >If you are too lazy to follow through that will become your problem.
There
> >is no excuse for number piggy-backing and it is against NomCom rules. If
> >you do not respect them you have no right to call your material anything
> >other than unclassified.
> >
> >Growing ever more tired of repeating myself to someone who can not grasp
> >the
> >simplest concepts,
> >
> >Adam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> >To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>; "Michael
> >Farmer"
> ><meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> >Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:59 PM
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> >
> >
> > > Well,
> > >
> > > What do you say Adam? Shall we send Mike our NWA1877 and NWA1110
> > >
> > > Put up ....... or shut up
> > >
> > > Bob Evans
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > To: Comcast Mail <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>; Meteorite list
> > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:52 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > >
> > >
> > > > Bob, I would be glad to, and I think that specific meteorite is a
> >great
> > > > example of the problem we are facing.
> > > > The Shergottite in question was widely distributed in Morocco, and
> >many
> > > > people got pieces of it. I sold under the name NWA 1068.
> > > > I am not sure how to approach this one, it is unfair for people to
> >demand
> > > > that every fragment of it be classified, as it would be a waste of
> >time
> > > and
> > > > material.
> > > > However, what is the solution? I really don't know.
> > > > Mike
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > > > To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>; "Michael
> > > Farmer"
> > > > <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:46 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ive sold samples to people who bought samples from both Adam and
I.
> >They
> > > > > say
> > > > > that they are identical ( kind of hard for terrestrial rock to
look
> > > > > identical to Martian meteorites isn't it ? )
> > > > > People on this list ( who care about this issue ) respect your
> >opinion.
> > > > > Im not asking you to classify it . Im merely asking you to report
> >visual
> > > > > similarity
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob Evans
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > To: Comcast Mail <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>; Meteorite list
> > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:39 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Well, I could easily make a judgment, but then it is going
against
> >the
> > > > >> rules, and while I have done that before, the only way to clean
up
> >this
> > > > >> disaster is to start living by the rules, and if you buy
something
> > > > >> through
> > > > >> the mail from Morocco, it should be submitted.
> > > > >> Amgala like I said in a previous email, is a fall, and like
Bensour
> >or
> > > > >> Allende, deserves different treatment from NWA #s.
> > > > >> Still, it is a tough call. I can say as a dealer and with some
> > > experience
> > > > >> since I announced Amgala, I could identify it, but I cant
reccomend
> > > that
> > > > >> everyone who has owned a meteorite do it. There is no substitute
> >for
> > > > >> experience.
> > > > >> Mike Farmer
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > > > >> To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>;
> >"Michael
> > > > > Farmer"
> > > > >> <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:28 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Mike,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I trust you. How about I send you a sample of my NWA 1110 and
NWA
> > > 1877
> > > > > and
> > > > >> > have Adam send you his.
> > > > >> > Then you can report your opinion regarding comparison back to
> >anyone
> > > > >> > who
> > > > >> > cares.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > >> > Bob Evans
> > > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > >> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > >> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:56 PM
> > > > >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >> To clarify something that is obviously causing some problems
in
> >the
> > > > >> >> meteorite world right now, I want everyone to know that
> > > > >> >> NWA 788, 787, and NWA 482 are numbers that came from rather
> >large
> >or
> > > > >> >> meteorites with hundreds of pieces bought during one of my
> > > > >> >> expeditions.
> > > > >> >> The Hupes and many other people have the right to those
numbers.
> > > > >> >> Now, there are other numbers being widely used without proper
> >title
> > > > >> >> (as
> > > > >> >> Dr
> > > > >> >> Grossman has stated publicly and with finality that people do
> >not
> > > own
> > > > >> >> numbers, but numbers are assigned to specific meteorite
> >specimens
> > > and
> > > > >> >> must
> > > > >> >> not be used with other meteorites just because you heard or
> >someone
> > > > > told
> > > > >> > you
> > > > >> >> it is the same).
> > > > >> >> Let's all please stop this practice as it is really hurting
our
> > > > > business
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> >> hobby. Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is
> >guilty
> > > > >> >> of
> > > > >> >> this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and to
> >start
> > > > >> > people
> > > > >> >> MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as
we
> >see
> > > > >> > tonight.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> I perused eBay today and it is still rampant with sellers
using
> > > > >> >> numbers
> > > > >> > they
> > > > >> >> seem to have drawn from a hat. So please ask you seller next
> >time
> > > you
> > > > > buy
> > > > >> >> something, how they got that number, who it was assigned to
and
> >if
> > > not
> > > > >> > them,
> > > > >> >> just how they came to call it that.
> > > > >> >> Mike Farmer
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> ______________________________________________
> > > > >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > >> >> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
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>
>
Received on Sun 21 Nov 2004 08:48:14 PM PST