[meteorite-list] Re: solution to the number game

From: stan . <laser_maniac_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon Nov 22 00:39:04 2004
Message-ID: <BAY101-F4069316D853781CB185E19F0C60_at_phx.gbl>

>Why wouldnt everyone have to include a notice in an ebay auction as you
>stated above if they received specimens of any meteorite from the
>strewnfield after the initial find?
>Bob Evans

I guess you missed my point - and that is that if you advertise your wares
as 'THE SAME AS NWA xxx' then you arent putting words into the mouth of the
nomcom - and NO ONE would have any buisness challanging your auctions.

in the end any transaction would be a simple matter of a potential
customer's good faith in your material - no matter how you describe it.



>----- Original Message -----
>From: stan . <laser_maniac_at_hotmail.com>
>To: <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>; <bobe5531@comcast.net>
>Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:03 PM
>Subject: solution to the number game
>
>
> > Bob,
> > If you want to sell your rocks as nwa 1110 - why not just include a
>notice
> > in your ebay description specifically and unequivically stating that the
> > material you are offering was not part of the nwa 1110 find that was
> > recoverd - however your source for the material has sold it to you as
>nwa
> > 1110 and your personal expertise in the field of meteoritics leads you
>to
> > belive that the material is in fact the same meteorite as nwa 1110.
> >
> > that way there is proper disclosure. no one can say you are advetising
> > something incorectly. to use this very specific example Adam doesnt have
>to
> > worry about colelctors out there thinking they have a piece of nwa 1110
>when
> > they infact dont. and the customer can make an informed decision. I do
>not
> > see how it would hurt your sales any because in the end they are all
>based
> > upon the market confidence in the source anyway. Infact you could even
> > market it as a benifit for your customers as you didnt have to go
>through
> > the expense of submitting material for classification - HOWEVER they
>will
> > simply have to trust your judgemt in identifying that this tiny fragment
>of
> > rock really is a picritic shergotite and not a pebble that fell off of a
> > cliff in washington state a few years ago.
> >
> > Meteorite numbers are much like slabbed coins. A pcgs ms65 high relief
> > double eagle wil lsell for fair market value sight unseen. An unslabed
> > ms-65 high relief from joe collector would not relize anywhere nearly as
> > much, just like most collectors wouldnt spend 200$ a gram for a martian
> > metoeirte that was simply a stone someone found on the side of the road
>and
> > decided to declare as comming from mars. However when you present your
> > customer with good, solid information as to the legitimacy of your
>claims
>in
> > offering that gem of a coin you will see that the realized price will
>start
> > to aproach that of what one might get if it were slabed. Same thing with
> > meteorites.
> >
> > comments anyone?
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
> > >To: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > >CC: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > >Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:08:54 -0800
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >
> > >It is very simple, send a type specimen to NAU or any other NomCom
> > >authorized laboratory and I will recognize your material when the
>NomCom
> > >assigns it an official NWA number. Using the numbers NWA 1110 and NWA
>1877
> > >will never be acceptable because the material has already been voted
>on.
> > >
> > >It is a simple matter, send in a type specimen and all the fragments.
>The
> > >fragments will be visually compared to the type specimen by a competent
> > >scientist. If a qualified scientist argues to the NomCom they are all
>the
> > >same and the NomCom votes that this is ok they will all be assigned an
> > >official number. Every fragment in the NWA 1110 batch was looked at by
>Dr.
> > >Irving, submitted to the NomCom and a number was assigned to cover the
>118
> > >grams of fragments, not a gram more.
> > >
> > >I am not authorized to compare material and make official judgements
>and
> > >neither is Mike. All we can do is offer an opinion. In the case of a
>fall
> > >the NomCom rules are different.
> > >
> > >Here is link to explain how you can make your unclassified and
>un-numbered
> > >material official:
> > >
> > >http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~glg100-p/Meteorite.html
> > >
> > >If you are too lazy to follow through that will become your problem.
>There
> > >is no excuse for number piggy-backing and it is against NomCom rules.
>If
> > >you do not respect them you have no right to call your material
>anything
> > >other than unclassified.
> > >
> > >Growing ever more tired of repeating myself to someone who can not
>grasp
> > >the
> > >simplest concepts,
> > >
> > >Adam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > >To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>; "Michael
> > >Farmer"
> > ><meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > >Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:59 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well,
> > > >
> > > > What do you say Adam? Shall we send Mike our NWA1877 and NWA1110
> > > >
> > > > Put up ....... or shut up
> > > >
> > > > Bob Evans
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > To: Comcast Mail <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>; Meteorite list
> > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:52 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Bob, I would be glad to, and I think that specific meteorite is a
> > >great
> > > > > example of the problem we are facing.
> > > > > The Shergottite in question was widely distributed in Morocco, and
> > >many
> > > > > people got pieces of it. I sold under the name NWA 1068.
> > > > > I am not sure how to approach this one, it is unfair for people to
> > >demand
> > > > > that every fragment of it be classified, as it would be a waste of
> > >time
> > > > and
> > > > > material.
> > > > > However, what is the solution? I really don't know.
> > > > > Mike
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>;
>"Michael
> > > > Farmer"
> > > > > <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:46 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ive sold samples to people who bought samples from both Adam and
>I.
> > >They
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > that they are identical ( kind of hard for terrestrial rock to
>look
> > > > > > identical to Martian meteorites isn't it ? )
> > > > > > People on this list ( who care about this issue ) respect your
> > >opinion.
> > > > > > Im not asking you to classify it . Im merely asking you to
>report
> > >visual
> > > > > > similarity
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bob Evans
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > > To: Comcast Mail <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>; Meteorite list
> > > > > > <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:39 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Well, I could easily make a judgment, but then it is going
>against
> > >the
> > > > > >> rules, and while I have done that before, the only way to clean
>up
> > >this
> > > > > >> disaster is to start living by the rules, and if you buy
>something
> > > > > >> through
> > > > > >> the mail from Morocco, it should be submitted.
> > > > > >> Amgala like I said in a previous email, is a fall, and like
>Bensour
> > >or
> > > > > >> Allende, deserves different treatment from NWA #s.
> > > > > >> Still, it is a tough call. I can say as a dealer and with some
> > > > experience
> > > > > >> since I announced Amgala, I could identify it, but I cant
>reccomend
> > > > that
> > > > > >> everyone who has owned a meteorite do it. There is no
>substitute
> > >for
> > > > > >> experience.
> > > > > >> Mike Farmer
> > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> From: "Comcast Mail" <bobe5531_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > >> To: "Meteorite list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>;
> > >"Michael
> > > > > > Farmer"
> > > > > >> <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:28 PM
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Mike,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I trust you. How about I send you a sample of my NWA 1110 and
>NWA
> > > > 1877
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >> > have Adam send you his.
> > > > > >> > Then you can report your opinion regarding comparison back to
> > >anyone
> > > > > >> > who
> > > > > >> > cares.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Thanks
> > > > > >> > Bob Evans
> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >> > From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> > > > > >> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > > > >> > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:56 PM
> > > > > >> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite numbers
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >> To clarify something that is obviously causing some problems
>in
> > >the
> > > > > >> >> meteorite world right now, I want everyone to know that
> > > > > >> >> NWA 788, 787, and NWA 482 are numbers that came from rather
> > >large
> > >or
> > > > > >> >> meteorites with hundreds of pieces bought during one of my
> > > > > >> >> expeditions.
> > > > > >> >> The Hupes and many other people have the right to those
>numbers.
> > > > > >> >> Now, there are other numbers being widely used without
>proper
> > >title
> > > > > >> >> (as
> > > > > >> >> Dr
> > > > > >> >> Grossman has stated publicly and with finality that people
>do
> > >not
> > > > own
> > > > > >> >> numbers, but numbers are assigned to specific meteorite
> > >specimens
> > > > and
> > > > > >> >> must
> > > > > >> >> not be used with other meteorites just because you heard or
> > >someone
> > > > > > told
> > > > > >> > you
> > > > > >> >> it is the same).
> > > > > >> >> Let's all please stop this practice as it is really hurting
>our
> > > > > > business
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> >> hobby. Virtually every dealer including myself has been or
>is
> > >guilty
> > > > > >> >> of
> > > > > >> >> this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and
>to
> > >start
> > > > > >> > people
> > > > > >> >> MUST immediately comply or this will just spiral downward as
>we
> > >see
> > > > > >> > tonight.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> I perused eBay today and it is still rampant with sellers
>using
> > > > > >> >> numbers
> > > > > >> > they
> > > > > >> >> seem to have drawn from a hat. So please ask you seller next
> > >time
> > > > you
> > > > > > buy
> > > > > >> >> something, how they got that number, who it was assigned to
>and
> > >if
> > > > not
> > > > > >> > them,
> > > > > >> >> just how they came to call it that.
> > > > > >> >> Mike Farmer
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> ______________________________________________
> > > > > >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > > > >> >> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > > > >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________________________
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> > > >
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> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
>
Received on Mon 22 Nov 2004 12:38:03 AM PST