[meteorite-list] THANKS

From: Rhett Bourland <rbourlan_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:00:10 2004
Message-ID: <IOEBKAHMGFBDJMOFGDFNAEAMDOAA.rbourlan_at_evansville.net>

Did you ever wonder why I don't like Steve? Its because of this whole
little episode. I like people until they give me a reason not to which is
what Steve did. I tried to handle this stuff privately but Steve is the one
who started making it public. The reason he is on probation is because he
got mad and made racist comments. I think that's reason enough for most
people. I also told you that I acted on it because I will not allow one
person to make an unfriendly environment for everyone else. The board of
the IMCA talked about it and since you see the results you should be able to
assume what happened and other than that its just nobody's business.
Apparently, trying to handle racist comments privately so everyone doesn't
see the full story is enough to get blasted because everyone doesn't know
what's going on. I've tried being totally open with everything and it all
imploded. I've tried handling things privately and I get blasted because
people form opinions based only on the ramblings of an idiot without knowing
the full story. Now I get suckered into arguing with Joel Warren on another
list which is something I tend to do too often but not anymore because I've
left that one on my own.
So what should I do?
I have other things that I can do with my time and energy other than deal
with either petty arguments or trying to explain myself for standing up for
what I believe to be right. I try to stand up for what I believe and I
don't regret a thing I've done because of that yet apparently unless I can
totally explain all of my actions to people who aren't even involved I get
knocked for it more than a guy who makes racist comments to someone he
doesn't like. I'll sleep well tonight knowing my actions.
So what should I do?
Should I step aside and let someone else who isn't quite so controversial or
is as spineless as Brice Hornback apparently is run it? What do you all
think? Jim Hartman (who is really a great guy) can handle all the technical
stuff ok, especially since everything is up and running now. Do you want
someone who won't be as outspoken to run it? I do enjoy the work, running
the website and especially getting the chance to talk to so many other
people around the world who share the same hobby but I don't want to be a
burden to the IMCA and hold it back any. I also don't want to explain every
single act I take when someone makes an idiot of themselves. Just because
you don't know all the reasons for something doesn't mean that those reasons
don't exist, especially when I'm attempting to save someone a little face by
not doing things publicly.
So what should you do? Talk among yourselves about who you want at the head
of the IMCA. If its me, fine, let me do my job. If its someone else, fine,
let them do their job. Get back with me if you want someone else to do it
and I'll pass along all the need information. Just do everyone who's not in
the IMCA a favor and stay off the Meteorite Central list and do on the
IMCA's list. You can post to it at
meteoritecollectorsassociation_at_yahoogroups.com and save everyone who
couldn't care less about this some trouble.

Rhett Bourland
www.asteroidmodels.com
www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
www.meteoritecollectors.org
-----Original Message-----
From: magellon [mailto:magellon_at_earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 6:52 PM
To: rbourlan_at_evansville.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS


Rhett,
I am even more confused? Steve said "pisano" in a private e-mail that Matteo
made public...
Then Steve admits his mistake to you privately, and you then teach him a
lesson by putting him on "probation"? Does he still receive posts from the
IMCA group site? Or did you stop those?
If he admitted he was mad and wrong, why punish him?
He's not racist - He was just being mad and wrong.
Rhett, I may not know the whole story but I know this was between two
people.
Why are you bringing the IMCA into this?
To establish "peace" is NOT a good reason.
The IMCA is for the authenticity of meteorites "period".
Are things more peaceful now?
You know as well as anyone that people get mad and say things they should
not.
First, it is up to the two individuals to try to straighten things out on
their own.
It saddens me that you say you would do it again.
Rhett, this appears not be a matter of racism but more an excuse
to push someone around you admittedly don't like.
No? Just substitute any other big dealer in Steve's place.
If Mike Farmer (not picking on you Mike :>) had said this to Matteo,
 would you have reacted the same way?
If you answer "yes," then why haven't you in the past?
You can not force people to be nice but they can learn from your good
example.
You have kindly and privately reproved me when I broke IMCA rules.
So, I know you can create a harmonious environment when you try without
changing the path of IMCA.
I could not understand from your comment if the board had any say so in the
new change to IMCA or not?
It sounded as if you did it on your own.
Does the board no longer make these type of policy changing decisions?
Please don't start talking about quitting like you did before.
We all appreciate your past achievements.
But, If you are serious (which I doubt), I will be glad accept the
position. (thank you)
Best case scenario, I would share it with Jake Delgato or another member)
Thanks,
Ken Newton
 Why Fights Get Started
#9632
Rhett Bourland wrote:
In a nutshell, I saw someone making comments that seemed to be belittling
someone else because of the country that person lives in which were
explained by Steve in a private email to me as "getting carried away in the
heat of battle." I took action, privately, based on those comments to make
sure that a friendly atmosphere is preserved for our friends in other
countries. One of those actions was basically putting someone on probation.
This same person attempted to post a sales message to a list that clearly
says "DON'T POST SALES OR YOU WILL BE REMOVED" and is removed, privately,
for it. Not once did I ever make any public comments about any of this
until various people started asking what he was talking about. I do
apologize to anyone who doesn't care about this private matter that I would
have liked to have kept that way. I stand by my actions and would do the
exact same thing if I had the chance again. If anyone else has a better
solution for this situation where they don't know everything that went on
and should have stayed private I invite you to present it. To anyone who
even cares, continue to read for an extended version of the above paragraph.
In this email that Steve sent Matteo he was rather unfriendly to say the
least. I don't remember the exact wording of it but I do remember that his
comments were along the lines of how this is a free country and despite how
it may be over in his backward country here in America he's free to say what
he wants and he doesn't appreciate "pizzanos" like Matteo trying to tell him
what to do which would hardly make it a term of endearment in this case.
That certainly seemed rather racist (if for nothing other than a lack of
better word) to me and also, please remember that I'm running an
organization that prides itself on the fact that many people from many
different countries are members. While it is true that the directors are
American and most of the membership is American as well I do everything
possible to make it friendly for people of all nations to not only join but
feel comfortable with other members regardless of where they may be coming
from. Don't get me wrong, I'm an american and wouldn't want to live
anywhere else but I totally respect people from other countries.
Admittedly, this doesn't involve authenticity of meteorites but what it does
involve is the fact that one person is making an unfriendly enviroment for
another person because that other person is from a different culture.
I do apologize if I detracted from racism in its most horrible forms but
please try to take into account where I'm coming from as well. Also
remember that I NEVER did any of this stuff publicly until last tonight and
I would have been perfectly happy keeping every single bit of it private but
it was Steve who started whining to everyone else. I also did contact Steve
about it and his excuse was that he just "got carried away in the heat of
battle." It was only after that had taken place that he started going on
and on about it to other people who had no idea what he was talking about.
Also keep in mind that there were no rules in place about this sort of thing
only because we expected that people were above this sort of crap and they
just weren't needed but apparently we were proven wrong. We will NOT be the
"polite police" but on the other hand I will not sit idley by and let one
person attempt to belittle another person because they may be from another
countryand create a hostile enviroment for our friends in other countries.
The reason you didn't see Steve's advertisement post on the IMCA's mailing
list is because the guy's messages need approval before they are passed on
to the rest of the list because of his actions with Matteo and I blocked
that message.
Also, as a few of you know, there have been disputes between various members
of the IMCA that they wanted us to take part in and we declined because
there just wasn't anything for us to do. I would ask anyone who falls in
that catagory to please provide more insigtht but quite frankly, its all
private and I'd like to keep it that way.
If anyone else thinks they could handle all of this better I invite you to
step up and take over the IMCA and all the stuff that comes with it. The
pay is non existant. You'll need to have a good understanding of HTML and
javascript so you can work on the website. You'll also get to make sure all
the webserver and DNS stuff stays up and running. You should also be able
to handle multiple emails from people who think they may have found a
meteorite in their backyard and want to know how to sell their amazing
finds. You will need to make this group as accomodating to people from all
backgrounds as possible so that other people don't start screaming and
crying that the group somehow persecutes them for whatever reasons, real or
imagined. So what do you get out of all of this? The thought that somehow
you may possibly be making a difference in this world and you also get to
communicate with other people from around the world that share your love of
meteorites. If anyone is able to handle all this and is willing to devote
the time and energy that is needed then I invite you to attempt to get the
same success I've had with the other directors of the IMCA in running this.
Rhett Bourland
www.asteroidmodels.com
www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
www.meteoritecollectors.org
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of magellon
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 1:45 PM
To: rbourlan_at_evansville.net; Meteorite-List@meteoritecentral.com;
meteoritecollectorsassociation_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
Rhett,
I am really confused with this action so if I am out of line please correct
me.
I just want to be sure that Mr. Arnold is indeed a racist because this is a
very
serious charge
and now his reputation is sullied by making it public.
Racists slurs are very damaging and hurtful to the recipients.
They should not be tolerated.
However the intentions behind the slur are equally important.
( Some Afro-Americans use the "n" word in friendship when addressing
each other but would not tolerate it from another race)
So, are you sure Mr. Arnold was trying to hurt the feelings of Matteo?
Are you sure Mr. Arnold is a racist?
Did Matteo contact him personally first to rectify matters?
Obviously Matteo must have contacted you at some time.
Did you contact Mr. Arnold privately to get his side of the matter?
Should Mr. Arnold be judged by rules that did not exist when the offense was
committed?
Why would IMCA be involved when this has nothing to do with meteorites or
meteorite sales?
Why has Mr. Arnold been banned from the IMCA group list when (according to
my
e-mails) - HE HAS NEVER USED IT? NOT EVEN ONE POST!!
So is IMCA going to monitor posts on the LIST and put the big dealers on a
"sort of probation" when they get into " undue assaults or racial comments"
(I've read a lot worse than a racial slur- i.e. sexual slur) or is this just
for
the little new people?
 Do you think the same rules should apply to all members?
If the IMCA is now going to concern itself with "relationships" as well as
"authenticity",
I'm concerned with its new direction and to what it might lead!
Did the majority of board members approve of this change?
I think this situation could have been handled privately without
accusations
and without IMCA involvement.
But now it is public and the IMCA has opened itself to a possible slander
charge..
I have found Mr. Arnold very open to suggestion.
He loves this group and I don't think he would intentionally hurt anyone.
I don't believe he is racist.
 His lack of experience may irritate others, but none of us wants our
"freeness
of speech" regulated.
I do not take Matteo's hurt feelings lightly unless he failed to contact
Mr.
Arnold to straighten things out privately.
Rhettt, again if I am out of line, please correct me. (these are
questions -
not flames)
Thanks,
Ken Newton
#9632
Rhett Bourland wrote:
> Actualy Walter, I think that Steve has confused this list with the mailing
> list for the IMCA. I am the one that has called him a racist because he
> made racist comments towards Matteo Chinellato after Matteo expressed
> discontent with getting Steve's multiple messages for the same material.
If
> making racist comments towards someone isn't reason enough to call someone
a
> racist I'm not sure what is. He almost got kicked out of the IMCA because
I
> will not tolerate such comments among the INTERNATIONAL Meteorite
Collectors
> Association but since there was nothing against that on the website he
> wasn't kicked out but if you'll check various pages there are now
statements
> saying that such actions are now grounds for removal and I can't believe I
> had to actually make such statements and they are only there because Steve
> proved me wrong.
> His comments to Matteo put him on a sort of probation with the IMCA where
he
> would be watched a bit more closely than other members. Last night,
despite
> the following statement on the IMCA's website
>
> "The purpose of the mailing list is to alert people of frauds and if a new
> person to wishes to join the association that we don't personally know
then
> we will post to the list asking for any experiences that anyone has had.
If
> you would like to post about anything meteorite related (discoveries,
> questions, good natured debate) that is welcomed as well. Please, DO NOT
> post any sales or flames to this list. There are plenty of other lists for
> those puposes. Failure to adhere to that rule will result in you being
> removed from it (but not out of the group). "
>
> Steve decided to post another one of his sales messages for the same old
> material to that list and as a result got removed from the mailing list
but
> not the IMCA.
> Also, despite what Mr. Arnold may think, I do not hate him. I don't
> particulary care for him because of his comments to Matteo as well as some
> rather rude comments that have been made to other people off list that I
> have been told about but I do not care for him because of those actions.
> I apologize to anyone who may not care about this but I wanted to go on
the
> record as being the one who called Steve a racist because of his racist
> comments made towards Matteo. Perhaps Matteo would be willing to shed a
> little light on this issue?
> Sincerely,
> Rhett Bourland
> www.asteroidmodels.com
> www.asteroidmodels.com/personal
> www.meteoritecollectors.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:02 PM
> To: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!; Meteorite-List_at_meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] THANKS
>
> Steve,
>
> The only person who could kick you off the list is Art Jones, the list
> administrator and I am certain that you have done nothing to warrant being
> kicked off the list. Who has threatened to kick you off the list and who
> has called you a racist?
>
> -Walter
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Walter Branch, Ph.D.
> Branch Meteorites
> 322 Stephenson Ave., Suite B
> Savannah, GA 31405 USA
> www.branchmeteorites.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!" <steve_arnol60120_at_yahoo.com>
> To: <Meteorite-List_at_Meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:42 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] THANKS
>
> > Hi list. I want to thank alot of you good folks for supporting me. I
never
> > intended to cause such an uproar. I just wanted to know about LA 002.
Now
> > I know. If we can get some great, if not no biggy. I'm just tired of
being
> > threatend of being kicked out of this list. I love this List and all the
> > great guys and gals that make up this great list. I'll slow down the
posts
> > and spamming. I just want to get along with my fellow meteorite friends
> > and can hardly wait to meet you in Tucson. It is hard to swallow when
I'm
> > called a racist! I do not have a racist bone in my body. I know I should
> > not let 1 person get to me, but I do not believe in my heart of hearts
> > that I should be kicked around like this. If it was not for Mr. Haag, I
> > would not even be in this club of meteorite greatness. I owe alot to
that
> > man. And when I get to Tucson, he'll be the first in a line of great
> > people I look forward to meeting. Thank you for letting me air myself
out!
> > I hope you all have a great evening!!!!
> >
> > =====
> > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
> > I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728
> > The Midwest Meteorite Collector!
> > Collecting Meteorites since,June, 1999!!!
> > Website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> > http://health.yahoo.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
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Received on Thu 25 Jul 2002 09:06:40 PM PDT