[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 22:17:08 -0700
Message-ID: <3a209afb-99a9-ab12-e79f-0531db85d37a_at_centurylink.net>

Jason,

Speaking of "gaslighting", you once bragged about majoring in
psychology. Professionals in other parts of the country avoid slang
terms. In slang terms, you are "gaslighting" by accusing me of
"gaslighting."

The exact location of NWA 1110 is known and the Meteoritical Society
approved the entire lot making it official. Apparently they had faith
in the classifying scientist. Images were captured of the crude
recovery operation using a motorcycle fender as a shovel and and a
window screen as a sieve. NASA liked these images so much they there
were posted in the hallway outside the Lunar Receiving Laboratory at the
Lydon B. Johnson Space Center the last time I was there.

Link to images:
http://www.lunarrock.com/meteorites/martian/nwa1110.html

Your argument about NWA 869 holds no water either since a special
exception was made for this particular meteorite in regards to pairings.
   No such exception has ever been made for any other meteorites that I
am aware of.

We have been through this debate before as you state. That is why I am
not going to waste much time with you. You wasted many hours of the all
volunteer board of the IMCA several years ago with your false
accusations and a complaint against yourself. You accused half of the
board members on the IMCA of the same thing you were accused of in an
attempt to redirect blame which sounds like "gaslighting" to me. They
dismissed your complaints due to a lack of merit.

The complaint against you, on the other hand, about self-pairing a Black
Beauty stone, which was never paid for according to the seller, resulted
in a different outcome. This is one of many reasons your membership was
revoked and any level of respect you once had, dissipated.

You went onto creating a "Meteorite Dealer Hall OF Shame" list according
to a reliable source. I heard this list will be updated soon. Good luck
with the legal repercussions.

If I were you, I would worry more about your Social Media Profile since
you were or are planning a career in meteoritics and all your
badmouthing and posturing has not gone unnoticed.

It is interesting that guilty parties nearly always accuse their
accusers of what they are guilty of themselves.

Adam


On 11/4/2017 12:13 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
> We've had this discussion before, Adam.? You're gaslighting.
>
> The pairing rules are very clear and can be read in section 4.2 (a) and
> (b) of this link: https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/docs/nc-guidelines.pdf
>
> Key statements:
> 1) "a single (collective) name may be given in cases where fragments fit
> together or similar-looking fragments are found within a few meters of
> each other"
> 2) "Two or more newly discovered meteorites in dense collection areas
> may be considered paired with each other or with another formally named
> meteorite if there is overwhelming evidence, including geographic data
> that are consistent with the meteorites being part of a single fall."
>
> When you buy a bag of "NWA 1110" from a dealer in Morocco, you have no
> idea where they're from or if they were actually picked up in the same
> place.? Every single fragment needs to get its own NWA number and needs
> to be analyzed.? Type specimen, etc.? Unless the fragments physically
> fit together and/or you have an in-situ photo showing them sitting
> together on the ground, you're breaking Nomenclature Committee guidelines.
>
> You can't just "pair" a pile of stones by looking at them, or by having
> someone else look at them.? You can have them all analyzed and show that
> they're internally *identical.*? Doesn't matter.? They all need their
> own NWA numbers and type specimens.
>
> And don't just think this applies only to planetaries.? You bought a 20
> kilogram sack of "NWA 869?"? Every single stone needs to be cut and
> analyzed if you're going to sell it as NWA 869.? Except...you can't even
> do that.? Even if they are all analyzed and all fall in the range of
> L3.8-6, like NWA 869, each fragment will still need its own NWA number
> because you still don't have any proof of where they were found.
>
> Those are the rules, and you've broken just as many of them as anyone
> else.??These are guidelines written for scientists, by scientists.? This
> is how stones are recovered and dealt with in places like Antarctica.
> Every detail of a stone's recovery is meticulously recorded, and every
> (sub-gram!) fragment is analyzed.? The only people I know who have
> followed such guidelines are the hunters in DCAs like Skip Wilson, who
> actually record every single stone they find.
>
> You -- and every other collector and dealer -- have played by different
> rules.? Even the IMCA has bought into a different set of rules that
> protect dealer interests: they say that you can't use "another meteorite
> dealer's NWA number," but once you get a stone analyzed, you're allowed
> to "self-pair" anything you want to that analysis, essentially without
> scrutiny.? This has led to a fair amount of misrepresented material in
> circulation, from "NWA 869," to the mix-and-match Martian and Lunar
> pairings of recent years.
>
> Nomenclature Committee guidelines haven't been followed since NWA
> meteorites were in the single digits, by you or anyone else.? As John
> Shea said before, pairing material at one's discretion is only as
> reliable as the dealer doing it.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> <mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for the last word and the concern for my reputation.
> These piggy-backing and self-pairing debates have gone on long
> before you became in interested in meteorites.
>
> My advice, since you are a member, is to read the IMCA bylaws which
> are all about authenticity and adhering to Meteoritical Society
> rules which do not support piggy-backing and self-pairing.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2017 10:20 AM, Martin Goff wrote:
>
> Adam,
>
> I am more than comfortable with my reputation and what I have
> contributed to the world of meteorites. I don't need to blow
> smoke up
> my arse or have the need to constantly have others prop up my
> fragile
> ego. As for your opinion of me, well it's quite obvious I could not
> care a jot what your opinion is, it is meaningless to me as it is to
> most! (a fact that is backed up by all of the messages I've had in
> private :-)) And as for calling you out,? whether on this list or on
> Facebook, how you can state that that is 'behind your back' just
> shows
> your levels of paranoid delusion! This list and facebook are both
> public forums and I am more than happy to speak my mind on either!
>
> And as for the rest of your garbled message, if it was actually
> coherent, readable and understandable then I might be able to
> reply..........
>
> But, as Johannes says folk are here to talk about meteorites so I
> won't bore them by responding further. However I'm more than
> sure that
> you'll want to have the final word and cement your reputation as
> someone who is losing the plot by clambering onto your rickety
> soapbox
> and ranting further whilst dribbling into your bib..................
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin
>
> Martin Goff
> www.msg-meteorites.co.uk <http://www.msg-meteorites.co.uk>
> International Meteorite Collectors Association (IMCA) member #3387
>
>
>
> On 4 Nov 2017 16:50, "Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> <mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>> wrote:
>
>
> A none answer is still an answer.? I will take it that you
> have made no contributions in the short time you have been
> into meteorites.
>
> Here are a few quotes from you about me on Facebook from
> Martin Goff; "He is pompous prick! Just dissing everyone
> else to try and keep the crown on NWA 5000" and, "He keeps
> on saying he is leaving meteorites and most folk wish he'd
> just do as he says....."? I wont post the latest comments on
> Facebook since they are mainly posted by dealers and
> demonstrate high level of immaturity.? Talking behind
> somebodies back is a sign cowardice, a trait wherein fear
> and excessive self concern override good judgement.
>
> You and others have an interest in Black Beauty may be one
> reasons you are speaking out.? Collectors deserve to know
> that are thousands of grams of this material being held back
> and not reported.
>
> Curious minds want to know what contributions you have made
> giving you the right questions others true colors?
>
> There are dust makers and dust eaters.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On 11/4/2017 9:24 AM, Martin Goff wrote:
>
>
> Adam, if? you weren't blinded by pomposity and your own
> bloated sense
> of self worth then you'd know exactly what my
> contributions were/are
> to the meteorite community. Your inflated sense of self
> importance and
> continued self stimulation of blowing your own trumpet
> means that as
> Jason says, people will call you out. If it wasn't for
> your continued
> bullshit spout out to this list folk would just ignore
> you, as they
> have for years..........
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin
>
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Received on Sun 05 Nov 2017 01:17:08 AM PDT