[meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Kem Kem Meteorites - What the heck are they? (Secret find coordinates)

From: drtanuki <drtanuki_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 09:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1401380795.29584.YahooMailNeo_at_web141403.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Mike and List, ?I think that I was the one that purchased the original Kem Kem which weighed a few lilos from?Michael Casper and it is shown in one of his catalogs; maybe in 1999? ?Details would require me to do some searching. ?After purchasing I went to Kem-Kem and ended the journey in Algeria by accident at 3am just a few days after some Russians were killed in the area. ?My driver and other passengers were stopped at gunpoint shortly after 3am when our mistaken road passed a military outpost. God was generous and we were granted safepass only because the guard was hald asleep and was busy getting on his full clothing when we were stopped.?

I will never forget Kem-Kem. ?I spent sundown on a hilltop meditating and watching the Sun set.

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


________________________________
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
To: Bernd V. Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Kem Kem Meteorites - What the heck are they? (Secret find coordinates)


Hi Bernd, Zelimir, Eric, and List,

Wow, thank you to everyone who replied.? I now have a better
understanding of Kem Kem.? I was also contacted off-list by a few
people who filled in some of the blanks, so to speak.

Apparently there were several numbered Kem Kem finds ranging from the
original unnumbered Kem Kem upwards to Kem Kem 20-something.? So,
there are at least 20+ Kem Kem named meteorites floating around on the
collector market.? While some of the Sahara-xxxxxx finds are
officially classified (and some are not), it appears that none of the
Kem Kem finds have been classified under the Kem Kem name, although at
least two appear to be officially-recognized synonyms of classified
finds (NWA 052 and NWA 753).

My specimen of "Kem Kem" does not appear to be an R-chondrite.? Of
course, I am going by visual analysis only, but the appearance does
not strike me as an R-type.

I do think the Kem Kem meteorites have some historical interest for
collectors.? Their role in bringing about the NWA dense collection
area naming system is interesting.

Does anyone know if Michael Casper or Michel Franco read this List?
It would be nice if one of them would chime in and share their
knowledge on this subject.? I am assuming the reason the find
coordinates of these meteorites were withheld is because of profit -
to prevent other finder/dealer teams from recovering specimens that
would be valuable on the market (at the time).? Now, many years later,
these Kem Kem meteorites are mostly a footnote in the history of the
Saharan Gold Rush, and their market value has been reduced by
subsequent changes in the market.? Obviously OC's are not nearly as
valuable now as they were almost 20 years ago when any meteorite (OC
or not) carried more value than it does now.? I do not see any reason
to continue concealing the exact circumstances and locations of the
finds.

For that matter, on a related note, why don't the Labennes open up and
release the coordinates of the Sahara-xxxxxx finds that still do not
have coordinates?? After all of these years, I do not think they
(Franco, Casper, Labennes, etc) will be losing any profit by releasing
the find coordinates of these meteorites, especially those that are
weathered OC's without much value now.? This might benefit science in
some small way by allowing some pairings to be made.? Releasing this
info would be seen as a goodwill gesture by many in the community -
science and collector.

Best regards,

MikeG

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On 5/29/14, Bernd V. Pauli via Meteorite-list
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> Zelimir's post didn't make it to the List ... so, here it is:
>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kem Kem Meteorites - What the heck are they?
> (29-Mai-2014 12:36)
> From:? ? Zelimir Gabelica <zelimir.gabelica at uha.fr>
> To:? ? ? bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
>
>
> Dear Bernd,
>
>
>
> Hope you and Pauline are doing well!
>
>
>
> Thanks for this info.
>
>
>
> About 2 hours ago, I also sent Mike an answer (in "plain text" format), with
> copy to the MetCantralList.
>
> Mike probably received the message (though he still can be sleeping) but I
> did not receive my copy as member of MetCentralList.
>
>
>
> I don't know the reason but believe if your message could be sent perhaps
> you could help me by sending mine as well.
>
>
>
> Here it is:
>
> -----------------------
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> As you might know, Kem Kem is a wide area in South Morocco, near the
> Algerian border, especially explored for various fossils. Many well known
> markets where NWA meteorites are currently traded (Erfoud, Er Rachidia,
> Zagora, Taouz, Ouzina, Foum Zguid...) are located in (close to) this area
> that does not seem officially defined by administrative borders (though I
> may be wrong for this).
> Here are a few links (among many others) situating the area and giving an
> idea of the vast desert land where obviously many meteorites are likely to
> exist or have been found.
>
>
> http://img.webme.com/pic/s/spinosauridae/kem_kem.jpg
>
>
> http://www.easy-raider.com/images/cartekk12.jpg
>
>
> http://www.easy-raider.com/moto_maroc_kemkem_ang.htm
>
> Regarding NWA meteorites, I can just mention 2 of the NWAs from my
> collection that were nick-named "Kem Kem": NWA 052 and NWA 753.
> Both are described in MetBull database and said being found in the "Kem Kem
> region"
>
> Here is the short collection writeup I have added for each
> --------------
>
> 1) NWA 052 ("Kem Kem") (Morocco, L5 )(S3 W0/1 ), found 1998, tkw: 1 at 1088 g
> Cut individual, 80% crust, 942.5 g.
>
> History and scientific significance . Found in Central-South Morocco by
> Michel Franco who sold it under the pseudo "Kem Kem". Acquired from Michel
> Franco in 1999
>
> ---------------
>
>
> 2) NWA 753 ("Kem Kem" ) ("Sahara", R3.9 )(S2 W2 ), found 2001, tkw:
> Many at 12.18+ kg.
>
>
> Full slice, 93% crust around, 31.89 g.
>
> History and scientific significance . Another "Kem Kem" pseudo (see NWA 052
> ), suggesting that the country could also be Morocco. Purchased in Rissani.
> Acquired from Ali Hmani in 2002. I then purchased another small full slice
> (3.73 g) of the same in 2006 from Stefan Ralew.
>
> It is possible that these two probably correspond to the L-chondrite and
> R-chondrite you are mentioning.
> Although my NWA 052 sample seems to be the main mass (by far), it is also
> possible that the other missing fragments were sold around or also that more
> such fragments (individuals...) were found later in the same area, or also
> that your l-chondrite is another meteorite from the vast Kem Kem area.
>
> Considering the large tkw of the R3.9 and its rare type, it is quite likely
> that your R-chondrite is NWA 753. See the many pics shown in the database.
>
> Hope this can help.
> I guess many collectors might help you further by providing more data or
> anecdotes regarding meteorites found in Kem Kem region or having received
> received this nickname by the finders in early times when very few NWAs were
> officially documented.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Zelimir
> -------------------
>
> What I forgot to mention is that these 2 Kem Kems I purchased were offered
> with that (provisional) name, thus before they were classified later as
> NWAs.
>
> Thanks very much for this help.
> My ever best wishes,
> Zelimir
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Received on Thu 29 May 2014 12:26:35 PM PDT