[meteorite-list] Chelyabinsk - Hammers for sure.

From: Mal Bishop <magbish3_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:21:09 -0400
Message-ID: <51574935.3060400_at_lowcountry.com>

Michael, and all -

How would you know beyond a CERTAIN reasonable doubt that it is a
"hammer" by the common accepted
definition as followed by most ( at least on this list)?

With all of the media coverage from the Internet to cable television
programming, there are so many more people that are not
only aware of meteorites but also the usually misguided (as well as
extremely over-inflated perception) of the cash value any given
fall ( or find) will bring to the one you recovers or deals in said
rocks, no? And with this being said, how would anyone, even one of our
illustrious hunters such as Mike Farmer, know with 100% reasonable
certainty that a recovered meteorite indeed hit a person, animal, or
man-made object when many of these stones are small, low mass specimens
(i.e. < than a few grams ) with many only 3 or 4 grams and much less in
mass (many 1 gram or less)
being recovered in very open, rural areas. What's to stop those
unscrupulous, greedy types from finding many of the specimens dug from
the snow covered
countryside and picked up from frozen lakes/ponds, taking them, posing
them on or near any given object, snapping a photo, and then claiming it
hit their house, car, tractor,
cow, what have you? Even with a signed affidavit, and photos galore, in
the end, it's still someone's word and that is all. Especially with so
many smaller, lighter pieces,
would they even leave any physical evidence they hit an object, any
object other than the ground? I mean leave dents, holes, fragmented
pieces of the stone itself embedded in the object
showing it may have indeed caused the said damage from impact as the
owner/recoverer may try to persuade a perspective buyer/dealer?
I wouldn't necessarily think so. Sure, larger stones with mass would,
as proven in the past with several well known falls, but I feel this
fall with all of its WORLD WIDE notoriety would be a hard one
to convince someone ( speaking here of me specifically I guess) that for
sure it hit anything other than Terra firma itself. ...and taking a
strangers word -- who knows ( or thinks they know)
what a meteorite will fetch monetarily, and what one that hits a man
made object would fetch as being even more. I would be very skeptical.

I'm not dissing anyone for their love of hammers and the importance they
may place on a specific stone from a fall for it hit something deemed
special while another stone from the same fall just hit dirt, but to me,
any meteorite fall (especially freshly witnessed falls that are soon
collected after their sudden deceleration ) are all important and
cherished -- doesn't have to have hit anything special -- just the fact
it came from
above to now become obtainable (when before it was unobtainable by
anyone other than NASA) by little me on this little planet is good enough!

I guess I'm trying to state the fact that now due to so much awareness
by the world at large of meteorites -- through the popularity gained
from so much media exposure with the advent of modern communication
technology
made so available to so many -- this is beginning to become a
problematic issue from here on. Except for the few exceptional cases
that will undoubtedly arise here and there, I would state
that the true, but well worn adage, "/Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary evidence/" ( as one of my personal heroes, Carl Sagan was
fond of saying) really applies when it comes to the term hammer.

I'll will close with the claim I've been know to be wrong, called
ignorant, and uninformed, and I will go back quietly, and peacefully to
my sweet hiding place in my little corner of the world.

Kind regards -
Mal




On 3/30/2013 2:46 PM, Michael Blood wrote:
> Hi Michael and all,
> Mike Farmer told me that many individuals struck houses, cars,
> Buildings, etc, but that all the dealers he knew of (implying himself,
> Included, I inferred) were simply bagging everything together.
> I am continually astonished at how people out to make money
> Ignore their market as exemplified in this circumstance.
> Of course one would want to have accompanying photos and, if
> Possible car owner names, etc, but I would not hesitate to pay substantially
> More for a stone of this fall from Mike Farmer if he individually bagged
> And labeled it and provided a photo of the struck item - I wouldn't
> Necessarily buy such an item on eBay from an unknown source, but from
> Mike Farmer I certainly would (or any other dealer I know and trust).
> Furthermore, I personally know many other collectors who would pay
> substantially more for known hammer stones from this fall. (or ANY hammer
> fall, for that matter).
> I just don't get it.
> Michael
>
> On 3/30/13 10:18 AM, "Met. Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Rumor has it that the Russian woman struck by the stone has adopted
>> the Mbale boy. Details at six.
>>
>> This meteorite fall should be considered a "hammer" fall, in my
>> opinion. I know some hate that term. But let's face it, this fall
>> did hammer the crap out of an entire city. Buildings knocked down,
>> thousands of windows blown out. You can't argue against that.
>>
>> Before the purists hurl chondrites at me.... I am aware of the
>> important distinction terminology....which is this - only those stones
>> which actually struck something are hammers or hammer stones. But,
>> if there is ever a candidate for something to be called a "hammer
>> fall" - this is it. This is the biggest and most devastating hammer
>> since Tunguska.
>>
>> Personally, I'd be careful purchasing hammer stones or artifacts from
>> this fall. Given the high TKW and thousands of individual stones
>> across a populated area, the potential for fraud is elevated. It
>> would be too easy for an unscrupulous seller to say that any given
>> stone bounced off their car or shed. Documentation is important.
>
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Received on Sat 30 Mar 2013 04:21:09 PM PDT