[meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff

From: Mark Ford <mark.ford_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:47:41 +0000
Message-ID: <3D7A674A041FFB4DBA68772C82FB4A07A00A1602_at_GAMMA2.ssl.atw>

Agreed, at present what we [know] is our type of life needs water (along with millions of other things), but also at present we [know] it also needs something (presumably closely) resembling an Earth with all its associated environmental and physical parameters and history in order to evolve. What we don't know is what [minimum] components, level of conditions, time span etc is required for life to always start. Therefore implying that other worlds could well have life just because it has certain very basic components like water, is extrapolation and speculation, that's why I think we should be cautious about making claims that planets like mars have 'the building blocks of life', - every meteorite has most of the elemental building blocks of life in it so does the moon, in fact so does my wristwatch. what it doesn't have is the right circumstances or conditions or environmental factors that the Earth has. Environmental factors are every bit as important as chemistry, I just think it's a bit early for peopl
e to imply that Mars holds much hope of being a living planet, based finding a puddle of fossil water. But it is very exciting none the less, and I really hope we find bugs sometime soon!



Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mulgrew
Sent: 14 March 2013 04:53
To: Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff

List,

In no way was I trying to imply that we know everything and there can only be one basis of life, but rather we only know of one living planet and that planet's life requires water. Of course there could be any number of "alien" life forms, probably many, many types we haven't even began to imagine. There's one thing we can say about this universe we inhabit, and that's that it doesn't make things just once. Billions of galaxies, billions of stars, billions of planets, and so billions of life forms would seem the natural progression. Of course this also leads too billions of universes, as well.

Michael in so. Cal.


On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Guys, List,
>
> What life needs is a source of energy that can be stored and utilized
> when needed. Without these energy exchanges there is no life. That's
> why you have to eat breakfast.
>
> This energetic system requires elements that are cosmically abundant,
> on planets large and cool enough to retain a gaseous reservoir of a
> reactive element (called an atmosphere) and a fluid reservoir of a
> working solvent to facilitate and participate in those reactions
> (called an ocean).
>
> There are many possible systems of energy exchange, but their
> LIKELIHOOD depends on the cosmic abundance of the elements involved
> and the likelihood of their entering into combinations with other
> common elements.
>
> If you grab a fistful of solar nebula you have hydrogen, helium, and
> as impurities, oxygen and nitrogen, BUT the oxygen and nitrogen
> combine easily with hydrogen, so you end up with an atmosphere of
> hydrogen, helium, with ammonia and methane as impurities.
>
> We represent a CHON life system, but fluorine is more energetic than
> oxygen and yields more bang for the buck. So, why don't we have a CHFN
> life system? The reason is that fluorine grabs on so tight it can't be
> split off again with the energies available at a planetary surface.
> Ammonia is a better solvent than water but its liquid range of fluid
> temperatures is so narrow that it would make a lousy ocean.
>
> The reactive elements for life are all right there on the periodic
> chart in a stack: fluorine, oxygen, chlorine, bromine, iodine. At
> first blush, life could be based on any of them, but some are more
> unlikely than others.
>
> Since I don't want to write twenty pages of chemistry, I suggest you
> go the link given below;
> http://www.bestebooksworld.com/showeBook.asp?link=24235
> and download the PDF of this little 1957 book, "Only A Trillion."
> Read Chapter Six, "Planets Have An Air About Them," by Isaac Asimov
> who, being both a chemist by trade and a better writer than I, can
> explain the whole range of possible life systems and how they might
> work in a marvelous fashion.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Montgomery"
> <rickmont at earthlink.net>
> To: "Michael Mulgrew" <mikestang at gmail.com>; "Mark Ford"
> <mark.ford at southernscientific.co.uk>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:16 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Stuff
>
>
>> Michael M and List,
>>
>> First, apologies to be so Sci-Fi...not the intention. If I had a
>> better rocker I'd probably be knocked off of it for remotely, even
>> slightltly suggesting this, especially to this credentialed List;
>> best a slap upside-the-head to get me back to reality...
>>
>> Meanwhile, here goes....it falls into the X-curiousity factor of all
>> equations: how can we rule out everything that hasn't already been ruled in?
>> To wit: given what we know about Life-to-develop-needs-100%-water,
>> what don't we know? Is our silly-human insignificance bound only by
>> what we currently know and entertain as possibilities?
>>
>> This is NOT an endoresment for rice-paddy science; nor a support for
>> the previous thread. I've just always wondered why we assume that
>> all elemental progressions are known.
>>
>> Big stew out there! I really would like to hear from you
>> heavy-weights...it'll rest better when I read.
>>
>> Sincerely, and good thing I'm not a B-movie producer, Richard
>> Montgomery
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mulgrew"
>> <mikestang at gmail.com>
>> To: "Mark Ford" <mark.ford at southernscientific.co.uk>; "Meteorite List"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astrobiologists Find Ancient
>> FossilsinFireballFragments
>>
>>
>>> Considering our current understanding of what it takes for life to
>>> develop, i.e. water is 100% absolutely necessary, I would say the
>>> recent evidence of Mars' wet past increases the chances of
>>> extraterrestrial life discovery by much, much more than "a tiny tiny
>>> amount".
>>>
>>> Michael in so. Cal.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Mark Ford
>>> <mark.ford at southernscientific.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure and I don't deny finding water or evidence of it is very
>>>> exciting, but what I question, is 'the building blocks of life
>>>> claim'. This is pure hype. Sure water and amino acids are essential
>>>> for life, but I would question exactly how certain life is to evolve when water alone is present.
>>>> The answer is it's massively more complex than just having flowing
>>>> water. So finding water does not immediately mean there is any
>>>> life. From some of the recent press and Nasa coverage, you would
>>>> get the impression that finding water on Mars automatically means
>>>> the hunt for extraterrestrial life is nearly over, but the truth is
>>>> very far from it! It just makes it a tiny tiny amount more likely..
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>
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>>
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Received on Thu 14 Mar 2013 04:47:41 AM PDT