[meteorite-list] Doug Schmitt's Talk at TEDxVancouver on 21st October 2012

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 09:58:57 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <1360259937.51682.YahooMailNeo_at_web122003.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Not worth stomaching the full 22 minutes.? Most of his material including the charts have already been used in other talks or seen on television documentaries.? Nothing like piggybacking on others hard work.? Like a typical lawyer, he tried to convey a point by slamming an Odessa meteorite onto the stage and exclaiming it was legally imported into Canada.? I will give him 1/2 credit for showmanship on the stage for this attention gathering stunt.? On the other hand, it was disrespectful to the Odessa Iron.


It seems this non-scientists covets meteorites for non-scientific purposes like the rest of us.? Why else would he use an American meteorite for a prop to shameless self-promote himself in front of a camera?

Adam





________________________________
From: Mendy Ouzillou <ouzillou at yahoo.com>
To: Carl Agee <agee at unm.edu>
Cc: MEM <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>; Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Doug Schmitt's Talk at TEDxVancouver on 21st October 2012


Very nice. Will have to read the full article later.

Mendy Ouzillou

On Feb 6, 2013, at 9:33 PM, Carl Agee <agee at unm.edu> wrote:


Hi Mendy,

PSRD recently did a nice piece on our Science article on "Black Beauty" for the non-specialist: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Jan13/NWA7034.html

Here is a quote from a section of the article about the discovery which involved dealers, collectors, and scientists, all in a positive light. And rightfully so, because without NWA, meteoritics would be diminished as a science.

Carl


Finding
a Special Meteorite
Some
meteorites are observed to fall, but most are found. They fall all over, most
splashing into the ocean where recovery is unlikely. Many are found by
observant people who plow up an unusual rock on their farm or hear a clang when
digging in their gardens. In wet climates, fallen meteorites rot practically as
soon as they fall, in some cases lasting in the dirt for only a few decades.
The best place to preserve them is in dry places, either wet or dry deserts
(see PSRD article: Meteorites on Ice.) These environments do not
necessarily perfectly preserve these valuable rocks from the sky, but they do a
much better job than do temperate and tropical climates.
There
are two incredibly important search areas for desert meteorites. One is
Antarctica, where national agencies manage organized searches each Antarctic summer
using teams of meteorite hunters in cold-weather garb to look for promising
rocks atop the ice sheet. The other area is in northwest Africa, with more
free-wheeling, privately-funded search efforts. That is where NWA 7034 [ Data link from the Meteoritical Bulletin ] came
from. It traveled from the desert of Morocco to the desert of New Mexico via
the plains of Indiana. The meteorite's terrestrial trip began when it was found
in 2011 by Aziz Habibi, a Moroccan meteorite dealer. Mr. Habibi sold it in 2011
to American meteorite collector Jay Piatek, a medical doctor who runs the
Piatek Institute in Indianapolis, Indiana. Dr. Piatek has a large meteorite
collection and like many collectors shares his samples with meteorite
researchers. He has worked with the group at the UNM Institute of Meteoritics
before. Although the rock's shiny, black fusion crust clearly showed it was a
meteorite, Dr. Piatek was puzzled about what kind of meteorite it was. So was
Carl Agee when he received the sample from Dr. Piatek and pondered it for a
month before sawing off a slice to reveal a dark-grey almost black breccia,
unlike any achondrite he had seen. Once Agee and his
colleagues did a bulk analysis of a small piece of NWA 7034, which had not yet
received its official, certified name from the Nomenclature Committee of the
Meteoritical Society [ MetSoc link ], they realized what had been
sitting on Carl Agee's shelf: a piece of Mars. Dr. Piatek generously donated a
slice of the valuable (scientifically and financially) sample to the UNM
Institute of Meteoritics.


On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Mendy Ouzillou <ouzillou at yahoo.com> wrote:

The facts below are very well stated. So, we can either tear apart arguments
>but hold our tongues, or we can put together a news release of our own
>highlighting the incredible (and only most recent) collaboration between
>meteorite hunters, collectors and scientists on Black Beauty and its
>sisters. I would like to call on the IMCA to speak out in defense of the "C"
>in IMCA to raise awareness of the good work going on. Yes, maybe there are a
>few bad apples in the hunting and collecting community, but the scientific
>community is not perfect either. Again, let's focus on the good.
>I'm not one to allow me or the community at large (which includes
>thoughtful, inclusive and appreciative scientists/meteoriticists) to be
>slandered or be given a black eye without a fight.
>As I have stated multiple times before, I'm happy to help craft a news
>release, but can't do it by myself. So, in the scientific community, anyone
>willing to go on the record and be quoted (does not have to be in relation
>to Black Beauty) in response to this specific issue? Even better, anyone out
>there want to be the "goto" person, i.e. an advocate, to respond to these
>negative remarks. I am aware of Marc Fries doing a very nice job of this,
>and others, but unfortunately this is a message that must be continuously
>reinforced.
>Thoughts?
>Mendy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MEM
>Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:56 PM
>To: Adam Hupe; Adam
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Doug Schmitt's Talk at TEDxVancouver on 21st
>October 2012
>
>Let me get this in perspective.? 25,000+ meteorites are locked up in ANSMET
>deep freezers wholly available to researchers only.? Another? 31,000+? non
>ANSMET ( ANSMET and METBUL figures) are in the met bulletin.? All meteorites
>passing muster have between 100% and 20% owned by approved/certified
>institutions of curation.??
>
>As Emma Peel the Wendy's Lady might have said..."Where's the beef?"
>
>So please someone somewhere give me the name of a credentialed researcher
>anywhere in the world that cannot get hold of specific material to do their
>research? Were it not for the collector community there would not be the
>1000's of newly found meteorites available in the first place.
>
>How many confirmed but non-NONCOM approved, distinct meteorites are totally
>in private hands without a speck available for research?? Does anyone on the
>list have an unclassified NWA that would not gladly share a portion if a
>scientist came calling??
>
>The blurb bout selling it "illegally on ebay" is outright fear mongering. If
>he is a maritime law expert shouldn't he be calling us "pirates" as well??
>And speaking of slander, why is no one publicly concerned about Jennskins'
>interviews where he talks about "Outlaw meteorite hunters"and the "meteorite
>black market"? Give me an answer and I'll hold my tongue and(Chicago
>convention excepted) speak no more of it.? I do not care that he is "Mister
>Meteor" nor that he may be world renown but he shouldn't be given a pass on
>his uninformed public statements regarding our community.? I really would
>like to see his direct response published, should he ever again be misquoted
>like the "black market" statements regarding the Gabal Kamal Iron. We would
>have his position on record.? Better yet, if he truly understood from an
>informed position he might never make disparaging comments to reporters.
>
>Which brings us to the other meteorite law logical fallacy: "Cultural
>property" and Doug Schmitt's building on the "cultural heritage defense to
>outlaw private ownership of meteorites.? Where a meteorite should land is
>random so its ascension to protected "native heritage/cultural object" is
>unfounded.? I understand Willemitte and Hoba, perhaps Cape York owing to
>separate reasons.? If they were men of integrity they would just pass their
>LOCAL laws regarding meteorite ownership. And let the rest of the world be.?
>By using cultural object status they are violating their own obligation to
>preserve in tact and not slice it up for study.
>
>Elton
>
>PS:? So according to Schmitt's TED talk only iron meteorites originate in
>the asteroid belt and are the oldest objects in the universe(sic)
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>> From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Doug Schmitt's Talk at TEDxVancouver on
>> 21st October 2012
>>
>>
>> In my opinion, NOT a friend of the meteorite hunting community.
>>
>>
>> Seems he found his
>> 22-minutes worth of fame outside of his area of expertise.? He should
>> stick to maritime law instead of demonizing the commercial aspects of
>> meteorite hunting which have contributed far more to science than his
>> videotaped self-promoting blather.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: karmaka <karmaka-meteorites at t-online.de>
>> To: met-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:16 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Doug Schmitt's Talk at TEDxVancouver on 21st
>> October 2012
>>
>> There Are 5,000 Meteors Heading Our Way... Now What?:
>>
>> Doug Schmitt at TEDxVancouver on 21st October 2012
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqcHaN91YSA
>>
>> " Doug Schmitt is a Partner with Alexander Holburn Beaudin + Lang LLP,
>> who has been practicing maritime law for over 32 years. Drawing on
>> similarities to the law of the seas, Doug has become one of the
>> world's few published authors on meteorite law. A member of the
>> Meteoritical Society, a non-profit scholarly organization founded in
>> 1933 to promote the study of extraterrestrial materials, he sits on
>> that organization's Working Group drafting the code of ethics for
>> collecting and distributing meteorites. Doug's scientific and legal
>> backgrounds position him ideally to offer insight from two distinct
>> disciplines into a fascinating topic: the possible consequences for
>humankind of a failure to properly study meteorites."
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
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-- 
Carl B. Agee
Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics
Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences
MSC03 2050
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque NM 87131-1126
Tel: (505) 750-7172
Fax: (505) 277-3577
Email: agee at unm.edu
http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/

Received on Thu 07 Feb 2013 12:58:57 PM PST