[meteorite-list] New BLM regs: Tempest in a teacup?
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:36:03 -0400 Message-ID: <CAKBPJW8ueCKH+=e9zPaG+1Z9yeAoEVoURfvrCyb-TMPTms27Ng_at_mail.gmail.com> Hi Greg and List, I enjoyed your post, but there is a small nugget of an idea in there that might be worth thinking about. It's obvious that very few (if any) people in the BLM know the first thing about meteorites, meteorite hunting, or the meteorite market. They are making and implementing rules without any input from the meteorite community, to our collective detriment. Wouldn't it be nice (relatively speaking) if someone from the meteorite community "infiltrated" the BLM and provided an inside voice of reason during meteorite discussions? If there was someone, like Greg, who is an experienced meteorite authority, who could confirm finds and advocate on the behalf of the meteorite community, then maybe we could mitigate the foolishness of the BLM. I know it sounds unrealistic, but how hard would it be for someone in the meteorite world to secure a job within the BLM? If we do nothing, or sit outside and gripe, the BLM is going to continue doing what it does best - regulate and ensure that major mining and energy corporations have preferential access to lands, while meteorite hunters are treated like pillagers and thieves. Strip-mining, fracking, and poisoning the land is OK, picking up meteorites is not. Apparently, the problem with meteorite hunting is - we don't have billionaire-funded lobbyists in expensive suits flying around to BLM field office in private jets to advocate for our rights over 5-martini power lunches. The next best thing, would be someone like Greg working inside the agency to temper the regulatory fever. Best regards, MikeG -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone RSS - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 ------------------------------------------------------------- On 10/2/12, Greg Hup? <gmhupe at centurylink.net> wrote: > I always love early morning hikes through the desert looking for my beloved > > Beanie Babies, such a fulfilling hobby! I never attempt to capture them or > molest them in any way, photos only using a 600mm zoom lens as to not > interfere with their morning feeding activities. They are extremely rare out > > of captivity so when ever I spot one in the wild it is most gratifying!! > > I believe I am going to change my career and hobby path in life. I have > thought about this over the last few weeks and decided that I will apply to > > be a BLM officer and approach my new bosses about being the point officer in > > charge of identifying suspect meteorites found by the casual hunter, > scientists and the rare professional desert hunter/dealer. Said 'meteorites' > > would have to come to me in my cushy air conditioned office and it would be > > at my sole discretion to decide if a particular rock is a meteorite or not. > > As part of my negotiated pay working for the BLM, I would of course have > been authorized a FREE life-time casual/scientific/commercial permit in > order to take these bogus stones from 'the vacationist' and line my person > garden with them. On my days off I would go hunt for meteorites and maybe > 'get lucky' every now and then. With my special new "Casual > Collector/Scientific/Commercial" badge, I could hunt to my hearts desire and > > do with any finds as I wish. But remember, this is because I negotiated for > > this shiny special badge as part of my monthly paycheck so it would be like > > buying said permit(s) anyway!! > > Hope everyone has a fabulous day, and be sure to Rock On!! :) > > Best Regards, > Greg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Wooddell > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:29 AM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM regs: Tempest in a teacup? > > Hi Norm and all! > > Here is some clarification info and such.... > > I do not know anyone who has gone through the permit process to obtain > a permit the priviledge of hunting meteorites on BLM land. Not sure > it has ever been required or any have ever been issued. I do not know > a current dealer / hunter that has permits to hunt meteorites on BLM > land. Can you share some examples? > > > I am not a lawyer and can not offer anything but my own opinion based > on information I have gathered communicating with various BLM > representatives, both local and national level. I am not trying to > share BS here, only sharing information. These new rules do not > affect me as an amateur Meteorite hunter. They do effect me as an > amateur researcher for science. > > I believe the BLM's new rules on meteorites do clarify much of what > the meteorite hunting community knew. The question on the use of > metal detectors for example, was in question by many. This issue is > now clarified in favor of all hunters. However, I want to point out > that local policy for any specific area could be different based on > the local Land Use Plan, which I think is the ultimate policy for a > given area. > > They have defined meteorite hunters and operation into three users of the > land. > > The first type of user is the "casual" or hobby collector. They are > individuals or groups of individuals who enjoy getting out and using > the land and find meteorites. They can keep what they find but can > not sell it. There is no permit required for this. > Note it does NOT clarifiy ownership for the casual collector. The > fact they say you can not sell it suggests a finder is NOT the owner. > > The second type of user is the researcher, scientist, or museum > curator who is collecting for their research or exhibit in a museum or > other educational institutions. This DOES require a permit. The > permit will be issued, if approved, under the authority of the > Antiquities Act. The meteorite is still federal property, i.e., the > government is responsible for the care of the specimen because it is > required to be kept in perpetuity by the institution for the public's > benefit and enjoyment. It has the status of a national treasure, to > be cared for with certain requirements to preserve the specimen. > There are no fees for this type of permit because it is benefiting the > public. > > > The third type of user is a commercial collector or dealer. I called > them ?professionals.? BLM calls them Commercial. They are out to > make a profit from what they collect from public lands. As with other > commercial commodities that the BLM is responsible for, e.g., sand and > gravel, coal, oil and gas, solar energy, wind energy, etc., they are > required by various laws to collect basically a ?royalty? that gets > returned to the general Treasury?s public funds. This type of activity > requires a permit and must be evaluated for environmental impacts > under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and other various > environmental laws. The processing of the permit and the environmental > evaluations are part of the fees to process a permit. In addition, > there may be a fee associated with monitoring, if it is required. > Professionals who collect for museums and charge museums a fee are > still considered commercial collectors, and require a permit. > > The BLM is using 43 CFR 2920 in regards to reviewing a permit > application, fees, fair market value, etc. The CFR's are fairly > clear. A local office in Arizona estimates the the permit process can > take up to 185 days, which is the current time it is taking. > > As per 34 CFR 2920.2-1(a), it is highly recommended that you discuss > the proposal as soon as you can with the authorized officer in an > area. The authorized officer would be the one to approve the permit > based on 2920.2-1(b). There is a possibility that the AO would > determine that this could be a minimum impact permit as per 2920.2-2, > because recovery of the meteorite material is usually from the surface > with very little impacts during surface collection. > > Two things are imperative.. > First, the local authorized officers need to be educated in the > collection of meteorites and of critical importance, the need to > recover fresh fallen meteorites as soon as possible. > Second, based on conversations with BLM representatives, institutions > such as those that study and curate meteorites can and should file > permit applications that cover an entire state in a pro-active manor > so that they or their volunteers can collect freshly fallen meteorites > immediately after a fall. Still, this is up to the authorized officer > for the state. > > The bottom line is that no one has any rights to collect meteorites on > federal lands for profit or for science without permission from the > BLM in the form of a permit. Science and dealer-hunters are those > affected the most. It was made apparent the BLM knows who many of > them are. Time will tell how this works out. > > I am only sharing information here. Most all of this can be > referenced to communications with a BLM representative at a national > level. > > Jim > > > Jim Wooddell > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Norm Lehrman <nlehrman at nvbell.net> wrote: >> Jim & all, >> >> Commercial users always had to have permits. Permits always took their >> time. This is not new Rockhounders were always prohibited from >> commercial >> endeavors. This is not new. Meteorite hunters were lumped in with >> rockhounders >> until now. The only real change that I can see is the change in poundage >> limits---a major change for sure, but how many of us have had years where >> >> the 10 >> pound limit would've been a problem? It can happen, but quite rarely. I >> >> have >> recovered hundreds of meteorite (fragments) in Nevada, but nowhere near >> 10 >> pounds per year. Probably the main point of all this is that we are now >> under >> scrutiny and attracting explicit personalized regulation where before we >> were >> pretty much under the radar. However, the "new" explicit meteorite >> regulations >> are mostly not new, but rather, a formal restatement of long-standing >> policies >> governing rockhounding on BLM-managed lands. >> >> Norm >> > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >Received on Tue 02 Oct 2012 01:36:03 PM PDT |
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