[meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )

From: Michael Gilmer <*meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:56:46 -0400 Message-ID: <CAKBPJW9gLBGG2rjnZJ_Y-g3x7feemfP1SwtDLDetTCSd-LhQTw_at_mail.gmail.com> · meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
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On 3/23/12, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I consider that little piece of paper you put inside the micros a valid
> provenance and COA.
> It's your design and has your name on it. Regardless of how small or cheap
> others perceive it to be, it's unique and it's the only provenance that
> comes from you. That in and of itself makes it special, and something worth
> being proud of. It adds a cultural and historic attribute to every meteorite
> you sell.
>
> You don't have to explain yourself, I consider you a friend, I like you and
> the meteorites you provide, I like your comments to the list, you and solely
> you, add a dimension to the meteorite world where there would otherwise be a
> empty space. When I see your post I don't always respond but I always take
> pleasure in reading what you have to say. People don't have to agree with
> you, who cares if they agree or not, you take pride in what you do and you
> make a incredible effort making great contributions to the meteorite
> community on a daily basis.
>
> And let me be the first to Thank you for being who you are, telling it like
> it is, and shooting from the hip, telling people how you feel,In my book
> that puts you near the top of the list. Not too many people put themselves
> out there like you do. Even though your not big on contributing great
> volumes of new meteorites, you more than make up for it in contributions you
> make elsewhere.
>
> Sincerely,
> John Higgins
>
> PS. I still am in support of standardization of provenance.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
>
> Hi John,
>
> Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than
> others.  The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to
> duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan
> Ralew.  Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it
> also has an embedded hologram.  This adds an extra element of
> difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid
> deterrent.
>
> Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast
> majority of my specimens for one reason - cost.  The bulk of my sales
> are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less.  It's just
> not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every
> little micro I sell.  At the rate I sell micros, I would need
> thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford
> the expense.  When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck
> (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be
> custom made, I have to pick the former.  I operate on razor-thin
> margins and this is how I feed my family.  I don't have a day job or
> income outside of meteorites.  Also, my inventory has such a high
> turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone
> tomorrow and might never be offered again.  And I am a man of
> opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone
> and are not planned.  I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow
> or next week.  Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants.
>
> I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others.  By
> the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble
> mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and
> other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on
> packaging each $5 micromount.  Figure in PayPal fees and the profit
> gets even smaller.  I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at
> COA's and specimen cards.  Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw
> around on the web.
>
> Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25" gemjar that has a paper label
> inside.  The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type,
> and my URL/name.  That small piece of paper, is for all intents and
> purposes my specimen card.  On larger or higher-dollar specimens, I do
> offer specimen cards.  Or, if I am reselling a specimen I bought from
> another dealer, I pass along the original specimen card or a copy of
> it.  Also, if a buyer requests it, I will provide a specimen card (of
> the conventional type) for any micro I sell.  Most buyers don't
> request it.
>
> I am aware that I lose potential buyers because of how I present my
> meteorites in a spartan way.  I have had several collectors contact me
> privately and tell me this.  Honestly, I am not trying to compete with
> the big guys, the Hupes, Farmer, Cottingham, or any of you veteran
> dealers.  I don't have the financial ability to compete and I have no
> desire either.  I am quite happy in the small niche I have carved out
> for myself.  I have a cadre of repeat customers who like what I offer
> and they come back again and again.  If they are happy, then I am
> happy. They know what I offer, and if they want a big specimen, they
> go elsewhere.  I often refer them to the other dealers for those big
> specimens that I cannot offer.  Some of those other dealers might be
> quite surprised how many sales I have referred to them.  :)
>
> John, I know you have a background in anthropology, and that plays
> right into what you are saying about provenance.  I understand that
> and cannot disagree at all.  I'd really like to see some kind of
> solution to the problem of authenticity and if there is a universal
> solution that I can afford to participate in, I will.  In the
> meantime, the best "COA" is buying from a dealer with a solid
> reputation.  This Met List is a good way to check authenticity or the
> reputation of any dealer.  If someone has a question or concern, they
> can post here and get qualified opinions from dozens of veteran
> dealers and collectors.  Some of those veterans might say - don't buy
> from that Mike Gilmer guy.  He is an a-hole who deals crumbs.  They
> might be right about that.  But, every crumb is legit and I do my best
> to maintain the integrity of every specimen that passes through my
> hands.  I keep detailed records and I can account for every speck I
> have.
>
> I too have a passion for meteorites and I don't do this just to put
> food on the table.  The ability to make a living from this is an
> extension of that passion. So I do care about my specimens and their
> authenticity - but I rarely issue COA's or specimen cards.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>
> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> On 3/23/12, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi Mike and List,
>>
>>
>> What a great response, thanks for that. I greatly appreciate your
>> comments.
>> Mike I really love and enjoy buying your meteorites and they all come with
>> ID cards.
>> You always give a nice one, I think this debate comes down to the
>> confusion over what is a ID card, compared to what is a COA and the
>> umbrella
>> of
>> provenance it all falls under.
>>
>> I really feel that the paper adds a Cultural and Historical dimension to
>> otherwise what would only be a Scientific object.
>>
>> It's important because the provenance can help add to the scientific value
>> as well, it's like a tracking number. And can help you find out more
>> information about the specimen in the future if you want to find out more.
>> Now this is where a standardized data form comes into play and would
>> immediately add value to all meteorites sold in the future. Wouldn't it be
>> worth it to have some of the historical background as to how the meteorite
>> came about other than what is stored on the meteoritical society data
>> base?
>> What if Joe Schmo ends up with a rare meteorite that originated from
>> another
>> collection and it looks a little funny, what should you be expected to do,
>> test every specimen or trust the Provenance that comes with it? You have
>> to
>> then make a judgment call, first you evaluate who is Joe Schmo? Then you
>> evaluate all the documents as well as the story that comes along with it.
>> Or
>> like you said you can already know Joe Schmoe and trust the guy or not.
>>
>> Now you say it's a big world of all different kinds of people looking to
>> buy
>> meteorites.
>>
>> Sure there is a BIG WORLD of meteorite collectors from every echelon of
>> existence. It's fine if you want to focus on the newbies or those who
>> don't
>> know enough about provenance and reputation or those that don't even care.
>> It's a free World, thank God last time I checked, people are free to
>> choose
>> to and do whatever they want at least for the most part in some countries.
>> But don't you want to stand out among and impress all the advanced
>> collectors and buyers that do care? That's a huge percentage of potential
>> customers that your shafting by not providing supporting documentation.
>> That
>> why I think COA's, ID, Provenance whatever you choose to call it should be
>> provided with each and every specimen. It might not add value for
>> everybody,
>> but it will to the ones who care, and I don't think there is a shortage of
>> collectors who are passionate and care enough to say it's important.
>>
>>
>> You say, sure anyone can scan and copy and make a fake COA, but I don't
>> think it's that easy, how can you get the same paper, the same patina that
>> you only get with age on that paper? I truly beg to differ on this. And if
>> your worried about someone copying your COA then you should go the extra
>> mile to make it copy deterrent. You are only hurting yourself if you make
>> a
>> flimsy photocopy that someone can easily duplicate. That all comes back
>> round to your reputation.
>>
>> That should be your job as the seller to make sure you customer is
>> confident
>> that they are getting what you say. I don't think this is a valid excuse
>> to
>> say because it can be copied it should not be done, you can easily make a
>> excuse for anything, that doesn't make it right.
>>
>>
>> I know there is great confusion about the differences between a Specimen
>> Card, ID Card, COA.
>>
>> In my opinion they all fall under the same umbrella, provenance.
>>
>> I see the paper as the dealers reputation, when they do a good job on the
>> COA, it shows me they care, they want to go the extra mile for the
>> collector. I like that.
>>
>>
>> The extreme position you can take for being against COA's.
>> "We know where the specimen comes from, Outer Space."
>>
>> But I think that statement can turn into another argument in and of
>> itself.
>> It sells the meteorite short in my opinion.
>>
>>
>> I like to buy from dealers who care about presentation, don't mind
>> spending
>> a extra few minutes to build that WOW factor that nobody no matter how
>> hard
>> they try can duplicate.
>>
>>
>> I agree with you Mike, when I get those packages in the zip-lock with no
>> ID
>> card or anything. It makes me wanna cry.
>> makes me want to yell at the top of my lungs:
>>
>> SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE CULTURE AND THE SCIENCE!
>>
>> I urge other dealers to take the extra steps to advance our COA's together
>> we can elevate meteorite collecting to the next level, and put our
>> meteorites where they belong up on the pedestal.
>>
>> Yes you can say I'm passionate about meteorites in every respect.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely Best Regards,
>> John Higgins
>> ww.outerspacerocks.com
>> IMCA# 9822
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>  From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> To: John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 3:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
>>
>>
>> Hi John and List,
>>
>> I was not knocking any dealer's reputation, just expressing an opinion
>> about COA's in general.  I think we are blurring the line here between
>> a specimen card and a COA.  I like specimen cards.  I am indifferent
>> towards COA's.
>>
>> For example, you say that a meteorite from a well-known dealer is
>> worth more than a similar meteorite offered by a lesser-known dealer.
>> This is true to some extent, but that increase in worth comes from the
>> seller of the meteorite and not the piece of paper that came with it.
>> For example, an unscrupulous collector or dealer could easily forge a
>> Hupe or Farmer specimen card.  This is not US currency we are talking
>> about that has built-in safeguards against counterfeiting.  All it
>> would take to turn any meteorite into a Hupe or Farmer meteorite is a
>> laser printer, card stock paper, and Photoshop.  Or, easier yet, a
>> scanner.  Scan an original specimen card and Photoshop in whatever
>> details you want.  This is not rocket science and most 12 year olds
>> are computer savvy enough to do this.
>>
>> This is where provenance and dealer reputation is of the utmost
>> importance, and neither of those things hinge solely on a piece of
>> paper or cardstock.  Everyone knows Bob Haag and the Hupes, and we all
>> know they abide by the highest standards.  They would never pass off a
>> misrepresented meteorite and if they say they acquired it originally
>> from collector X or dealer X, then you can take their word on it.  The
>> COA or specimen card is secondary.
>>
>> Ironic thing is, the perceived increased value of a meteorite that
>> comes from a well-known dealer is only valid with knowledgeable
>> buyers.  A newbie who doesn't know a Hupe from John Smith and doesn't
>> know or care where it came from, or chain of custody, or authenticity.
>> I've bought specimens from you, the Hupes, Farmer, and dozens of
>> other dealers and turned around and flipped those specimens for a
>> profit - I am lesser known than those dealers, yet I realized a higher
>> price for the specimen.  Why?  Because the market is a fickle mistress
>> and there are a million buyers out there from newbies to veterans and
>> each buyer has different criteria concerning what they regard as
>> valuable.   If I buy a slice of meteorite from you and then try to
>> resell that slice, is it worth less or more?  Who decides?  I can
>> offer it for X dollars and I may or may not get that price.  It's up
>> to the buyer to decide whether or not the specimen is worth the money.
>> That is why the gentleman on Auction Kings paid $2000 for a $200
>> specimen and thought he got a great deal.  If he's happy, then he did.
>>
>> I'm not knocking any dealer, specimen cards, or provenance.  What I am
>> knocking is COA's for meteorites.  There is no governing body, not
>> even the IMCA, that can grade or authenticate any meteorite with
>> authority and then provide a COA that has any real meaning.  That may
>> change one day, but as of right now it's true.  Give me any dealer's
>> COA and I can reproduce a copy of it that is indistinguishable from
>> the original.  And that is the danger with COA's - they provide a
>> false sense of security regarding the specimen's authenticity.
>>
>> The best safeguard against buying a fake or misrepresented meteorite
>> is to buy only from reputable dealers - and buyers discover who those
>> dealers are by doing their homework and by gaining experience with the
>> market.  I may be a "lesser known" dealer, but my track record is
>> spotless regarding authenticity and will always remain so, because
>> whether I am liked or not, my specimens are exactly what I say they
>> are - from the tiniest speck to the biggest iron.
>>
>> I won't name names, but a few of the "well known" dealers do exactly
>> what you say you don't like - they throw a specimen in a ziploc
>> baggie, write on the baggie with a sharpie, and provide no specimen
>> card or COA.  When I first encountered this years ago, I was very
>> surprised.  I once bought a $1000 slice of Seymchanpallasite that
>> came in a plain bubble mailer with no receipt, no card, no COA, and no
>> packaging material to protect it.  I was amazed that it arrived
>> undamaged through USPS with no insurance or tracking.  This was from a
>> very well-known dealer, member of this List, IMCA member, and someone
>> who was recently in the media.  Needless to say, I haven't bought
>> anything from that person since and probably will not buy from them
>> again ever.  I was lucky my specimen didn't get lost or damaged.
>>
>> John, I do agree with you 100% that all dealers should get together
>> and provide some kind of standardized COA or authentication regime -
>> it would greatly improve the integrity of the market.  But,
>> implementing such a regime would be problematic and I think that is
>> why we have not seen this happen yet.  For example, is a specimen
>> really Zulu Queen, or just an NWA L-type chondrite?  Who can tell?
>> Only lab-work will tell, and not even the most trained eye can
>> authenticate most meteorites.  Until we find someone who has an
>> electron microprobe and is willing to use that instrument for free to
>> authenticate meteorites for us, then we are stuck with using visual
>> comparisons and tracing chain of custody/provenance - and the honor
>> system.
>>
>> Having said all of that, let me state that I am greatly impressed with
>> the presentation of your meteorites.  Your specimen card/COA is very
>> nice and professional looking.  The custom baggies you use, the
>> labels, and all the inserts are top-notch.  Heck, they are better than
>> 99% of the other big dealers who are more well-known.  I'm not
>> knocking you or anyone else for providing such materials with their
>> specimens.  I am simply stating that any card or piece of paper cannot
>> guarantee that a given meteorite is real.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> PS - FWIW, I collect specimen cards.  I have a 3-ring binder full of
>> them, hundreds of them from almost every dealer on the planet.  :)
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>>
>> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/23/12, John higgins <geohiggins at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Mike, Adam, and List,
>>> Interesting opinions.
>>>
>>> You guys touched on a major issue in the Meteorite Community, and there
>>> are
>>> parts of your statements I don't agree with. I would really like to share
>>> how I feel about the subject.
>>>
>>> First of all Mike you said,
>>>
>>> " I thought this was laughable for obvious
>>> reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of
>>> COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on.  I can go outside,
>>> grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for
>>> it."
>>>
>>> Mike with all due respect, I don't agree with this. Why would you try to
>>> knock a dealers reputation? For example a meteorite sold by Mike Farmer
>>> or
>>> Greg Hupe is worth more than a meteorite that is sold without any
>>> provenance
>>> or COA.
>>>
>>> For example lets say unknown dealer X is selling a Howardite, and well
>>> known
>>> dealer Y is selling the same Howardite. Who do you think is going to
>>> realize
>>> a higher price? The well know dealer.
>>>
>>> Now if that meteorite losses it's COA from the dealer who sold it, what
>>> happens? Usually the meteorite immediately looses value, how can you
>>> explain
>>> this if the COA is not worth the paper it's printed on?
>>>
>>> For example a meteorite said to be from from the Bob Hagg collection
>>> without
>>> Bob's paperwork has a much lower value than a meteorite from the Bob Hagg
>>> collection with his COA right?
>>>
>>> So please extrapolate exactly what you mean and how you come to this
>>> conclusion. I strongly disagree with your opinion. Much of the value in
>>> meteorites is locked up in the provenance and not the meteorite itself in
>>> my
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> I think what is much too overlooked is that a meteorite dealers
>>> reputation
>>> is the most important factor in meteorite prices. That includes the
>>> following they create, the friends they make, impressions that collectors
>>> get all translate into value and that it why most collectors demand
>>> individual COA's be issued with each meteorite sold. I think this makes a
>>> lot of sense because the process it takes to build a good reputation
>>> takes
>>> years. The piece of paper adds value. Of course a paper from Hagg is
>>> worth
>>> more than a COA from Joe Schmo. But to say the paper has no value is the
>>> most insane thing I ever heard. How else would you know if your buying
>>> pedigree meteorites from dealers who stand for integrity, honor and
>>> strive
>>> to provide the customer the best experience. A lot of new comers think
>>> that
>>> the value is in the meteorite itself, and then when they try to sell
>>> them,
>>> they are greatly let down and wonder why their meteorites don't fetch the
>>> same price that
>>>  the other more well known dealers get all day long. Because it comes
>>> down
>>> to more than just the meteorite itself and taking it for face value. You
>>> fail to consider the amount of friends the advanced dealers had made over
>>> the years, the networking they have done and the awareness they have
>>> created
>>> about their meteorite and the way they are presented. And most
>>> importantly
>>> the way they make their customers feel is the most important factor to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Is it just a roughly cut rock, sloppily thrown in a bag with a sharpie
>>> marking? OR IS IT A EXPERIENCE FOR THE CUSTOMER? The experience adds
>>> value,
>>> making the customer feel good is an integral part of any business, even
>>> meteorite dealing. The COA and provenance conveys that feeling to the
>>> customer. It makes them say WOW! I can't wait to see what this dealer has
>>> to
>>> offer me next. It gives them something to hold onto other than just the
>>> meteorite itself. Sure you can put on narrow vision goggles and only
>>> focus
>>> on the meteorite itself, throwing everything else away and assigning
>>> absolutely no value as to how the meteorite ended up where it is, but I
>>> don't think that's a very scientific approach. It's all part of the story
>>> and how you ended up with the specimen is a big part of meteorites and
>>> collecting.
>>>
>>> I for one get very depressed when I buy a meteorite on eBay and it comes
>>> with no card! What happens if I lose the bag it's in or the marking wears
>>> off? what happens to the specimen, the value drops to 0. Cant sell it
>>> because you don't know what it is. And if you ever do want to sell it,
>>> how
>>> can you prove where it came from. The COA answers a lot of those
>>> questions,
>>> sure you can explain to kingdom come what it is, but it wont prove the
>>> origin for the 99% of meteorite collectors who demand provenance, and I
>>> don't blame them one bit. The value to any assigned meteorite is less
>>> without the papers.
>>>
>>> Now I will admit, it can all come down to perspective, when your dealing
>>> with small micro fragments, I sympathize with your view Mike, it's not
>>> worth
>>> the time or the expense to make a COA, but you can always give something,
>>> even a little piece of paper I hope, to say it came from you and what it
>>> is.
>>> Maybe comparing a micro to a macro is useless and it's like comparing
>>> Apples
>>> to Oranges... Two totally different perspectives that are neither right
>>> or
>>> wrong just are what they are, each of us our own independent opinions.
>>>
>>> Adam you said,
>>>
>>> " A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big
>>>  bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where
>>>  some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves."
>>>
>>> Adam, with all due respect, I don't understand this statement, where do
>>> you
>>> and your COA's fit into the picture? Don't you print the COA and
>>> describe/grade the meteorites you sell and classify? Sounds like you
>>> would
>>> be hesitant to buy meteorites from yourself? I think comparing baseball
>>> cards and antiques that hold cultural value to meteorites that hold both
>>> cultural and scientific value, is like comparing Apples to Oranges.
>>>
>>> To Everyone,
>>> I would like to go one step further, I urge the meteorite community at
>>> large
>>> to consider standardizing COA's and provenance. Each dealer should still
>>> have his/her own unique style but there should be a simple standardized
>>> field of data provided for each specimen. This will promote the science
>>> of
>>> studying them, adding value to all of our collections in the future.
>>>
>>> Thanks for taking the time to hear my opinion, Have a Great Day!
>>> Best Regards,
>>> John Higgins
>>> www.outerspacerocks.com
>>> IMCA # 9822
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 SikhoteAlin
>>>
>>> Hi Adam and List,
>>>
>>> Some good points there.
>>>
>>> About COA's - even if a COA comes from a trusted grading or
>>> certification firm, the value in the COA is not the COA itself, it is
>>> the name of the grading or certification service on it that is known
>>> to collectors of that particular type of collectible.  If you buy a
>>> rare collectible and the COA says "Confirmed authentic by Acme
>>> Certification Services, Walla Walla Washington, Serial number
>>> #123456", then the value of the certificate is that the buyer or
>>> potential buyer can contact Acme Services, have them check their
>>> database and confirm that the item in question is indeed genuine.
>>> However, anyone can print a piece of paper that looks like it came
>>> from Acme Certification Services and the ruse will only be exposed if
>>> the buyer follows up on the info printed on the COA.   The COA itself
>>> is worthless.
>>>
>>> In the world of meteorites, there is no certification service or
>>> central authority that can be relied upon to authenticate meteorites.
>>> Without an authoritative body backing a COA, it's just a pretty piece
>>> of paper.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, I agree 100% with the other things you said.  :)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>> --
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>>>
>>> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>>> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/12, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay.  EBay is
>>>> not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables.  A solid
>>>> auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized
>>>> on eBay.  The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions
>>>> are
>>>> out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the
>>>> buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees.
>>>>
>>>> Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I
>>>> have used some of them.  One problem I encountered is that if the item
>>>> doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it,
>>>> then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and
>>>> no-sell fees.  They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders!
>>>>
>>>> A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get
>>>> wholesale prices right off of eBay.  Some specialty shops get most of
>>>> there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their
>>>> shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay
>>>> have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely
>>>> misrepresented.
>>>>
>>>> There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and
>>>> paper
>>>> items so COAs  are important to me.  I wouldn't purchase a valuable
>>>> coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that
>>>> it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate
>>>> service.  A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big
>>>> bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where
>>>> some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Kind Regards and Happy Collecting,
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>