[meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to MakeLife's Components

From: Richard Montgomery <rickmont_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:29:26 -0700
Message-ID: <B65AE871F3584A8D8F08E31B7C431AFE_at_bosoheadPC>

At the risk of furthing an off-topic topic...I'll try to steer it back to
meteoritic relevence:

There is a subtle irony in the 'big' questions discussed within this thread
before (no, not irons, although I won't rule it out!)...all we do is re-read
books such as Dodd's earlier edition of Meteorites to remember how recently
there were no lunars yet, (at that point)....and if our highly respected
meteoriticists had ruled out possibilities, we'd have been stuck.

Personally, if I can't rule something out, I will rule it in as a potential.
Put another way, that which science cannot yet explain should be possible.

As with all of us, aren't we waiting in extreme excitement to hear of the
possibilities with Tissint, for example? (I recall this same feeling when
NWA 5400 arrived, and many many others)....

Richard Montgomery




----- Original Message -----
From: <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to MakeLife's
Components


> Good points Richard, Michael, (I will apologize in advance for the length
> of this post; I started writing a couldn't stop)
>
> Divine Creation vs Natural Formation. That is the question. That is a
> VERY large part of why I love meteorites so much. Meteorites have allowed
> me a look into the universe and answer some very important personal,
> spiritual, and scientific questions as to the origins of Earth, the
> planets, and ourselves. Meteorites are keys to unlocking our past, the
> formation of Earth, the solar system, stars, galaxies, and ultimately the
> universe itself.
>
> The problem with the divine creation (anthropomorphic creator) hypothesis
> is that it's an assumption of observance. In other words the watchmaker
> paradox. The universe exists, how did it come to be? Something must have
> "created" it. Right? Not necessarily. That my friends is an absolute
> assumption.
>
> And the argument should stop right there, but it doesn't. Believers will
> argue that something can't come from nothing and non-believers will argue
> that everything came from what we perceive as nothing. (The Big Bang)
> Science and non-believers go one step further and say "We don't know what
> happened before the Big Bang." That is intellectual honesty and good
> science. And this might be offensive to some, and I'm sorry if offends,
> but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity started it, is pure
> speculation, because no one knows what happened before, in the beginning,
> and it creates the creator to explain the unexplained formation of the
> observable. Why can't the unexplained stop and start at "I don't know,
> lets find out." instead of "god did it."?
>
> Evolution, Panspermia, Transpermia, Abiogenesis, Planetary Science,
> Astrobiology, Astronomy, Anthropology, Archeology, they all help explain
> the universe and world around us.
>
> Meteorites specifically are absolutely a vital clue to unlocking the
> secrets of the universe because they (the asteroids and comets that make
> them) not only are they the very material that formed our planet, every
> single planet, planetesimal, asteroid, comet, meteoroid, and spec of dust
> floating around our star was once part of another star before, as are we.
> It's a cycle, a system, a circular system of formation and destruction,
> somewhere in between life formed.
>
> Why create a creator to explain the unexplainable? Why not instead use
> science to determine origins rather than speculate on a divine
> supernatural beginning. Empirical evidenced fact outweighs speculative
> assumption every time. We are in fact part of nature, not separate from
> it. We need not transpose an anthropomorphic creatot to explain something
> we don't yet know.
>
> Regardless of whether there is a divine creator, or not, no one can prove
> it empirically either way. (yet) That's what science is for. If there is,
> science will find out, if there is not, science will find out. Either
> way, the truth will only be the truth when we prove it with evidence, not
> speculative assumption of the observable.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net>:
>
>> Hi Michael and List (a different Richard here!)
>>
>> Contrary to the often mis-conception that 'religion' and 'God' are
>> interchangeable...and considering the 'dangerous' ground upon which a
>> discussion of this sort may be inappropriate for the meteoritical
>> discussion here....allow me this thought:
>>
>> A person of 'faith' may not rule out transpernmia in theory; it simply
>> expands the pie. A 'religious' person tied tether-bound to a strick
>> doctrine may reject such an 'outlandish' notion out-of-hand, as it
>> disrupts the entire reality from which their foundation is built.
>>
>> In short, (in my small and insignificant yet human perspective), it
>> should be rational to allow both transpermia and a perspective of God
>> that trancends all current 'views' of even Christianity, allowing for
>> all three to co-exist....just a thought....
>>
>> Richard Montgomery
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
>> To: "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make
>> Life's Components
>>
>>
>>> Hi Richard,
>>>
>>> As an Anthropologist I can assure you all religions have NOT
>>> Viewed God as male - some were female and some were non-gender
>>> Specific "spirit."
>>>
>>> Garry, I agree with you - interesting topic, but I fear a good
>>> many
>>> On the list would see it as non-meteorite related in spite of the fact
>>> That transpermia (via meteorites) compels such a discussion about why
>>> People "of faith" would reject transpermia out of hand. They damned
>>> Near tortured Galileo to death for saying the world was not the center
>>> Of the universe (and he lived the remainder of his life under house
>>> arrest).
>>>
>>> Religious persecution of scientific recognition of inconvenient
>>> facts has always been part of history and continues to this day - most
>>> religions holding the view, "the way we see things IS the way things
>>> are"
>>> while others overtly state that view AND feel the DUTY to kill anyone
>>> when sees things differently - hence 9/11.
>>>
>>> Weird, weird, weird & weirder.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/11/12 2:23 PM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Micheal,
>>>> That is an excellent point that has always baffled me and I could never
>>>> understand the thinking
>>>> of any religion in this world. All the different Gods worshiped world
>>>> wide
>>>> have always been considered a male.
>>>> Which brings up the problem, "Which came first, the chicken or the
>>>> egg."
>>>> I think all these religions could be easier to swallow if their God was
>>>> a
>>>> female.
>>>> That would answer the question, she "God" was a female carrying the
>>>> first egg
>>>> that resulted
>>>> in the birth of the universe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Lipke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> A major element in the problem with most of those calling
>>>>> Themselves Christians these days is that they
>>>>> See God as an anthropomorphic individual. This makes it
>>>>> Difficult to see the "glory" or creation in anything other
>>>>> Than comic book images.
>>>>>
>>>>> They actually envision God as a big (male) human who
>>>>> Literally, with His hands, shaped Adam out of mud.....
>>>>> They cannot even see what a nearly perfect allegory that is
>>>>> For evolution arising from a primeval "soup."
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence of transpermia is growing - but don't confuse
>>>>> Them with facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/10/12 5:58 AM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Years ago I got a lot of questionable looks concerning my sanity
>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> brought up
>>>>>> the idea of meteorites being "the Johny Appleseed of of life on
>>>>>> Earth" to
>>>>>> members of my astronomy club.
>>>>>> Needless to say it resulted in many,many comments of out rage.
>>>>>> They reminded me of how it must have felt to be among the first
>>>>>> to refute the idea that Earth was the center of the Universe.
>>>>>> Lucky for me my kind of thinking came in 20th century, back then
>>>>>> they still
>>>>>> burnt
>>>>>> people at the stake for being possessed by satin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Lipke
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>>> ScienceDaily, March 9, 2012,
>>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309104845.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>>> Klaus Schmidt, March 10, 2012
>>>>>>> http://spacefellowship.com/news/art27926/meteorites-reveal-another-way-to-m
>>>>>>> ak
>>>>>>> e-life-s-components.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The paper is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Burton, A. S., J. E. Elsila, M. P. Callahan, M. G. Martin, D. P.
>>>>>>> Glavin, N. M. Johnson, and J. P. Dworkin. A propensity
>>>>>>> for n-w-amino acids in thermally altered Antarctic
>>>>>>> meteorites. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. Article
>>>>>>> first published online: 8 March 2012
>>>>>>>
>>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2012.01341.x/abstrac>>>>
>>> t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best wishes,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul H.
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>
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Received on Mon 12 Mar 2012 02:29:26 PM PDT