[meteorite-list] Hammer fall term (this poor poor horse)

From: Ed Deckert <edeckert_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:02:39 -0400
Message-ID: <9C8D79E18A23450B9DFA2C4304C30C04_at_MAINPC>

Mercy! We can't even shoot this poor horse to put it out of its misery
'cause it wouldn't do any good - dead is dead!. 'Bout all that'd do is
scare off some of the flies covering its carcass for a few moments.

Ed ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hendry" <pict at pict.co.uk>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer fall term (this poor poor horse)


> Michael,
>
> great expositon, and a good example of what I was thinking about. However
> I
> am still failing to parse the language used to square with what would be
> the
> normally understood meaning in the english language. If I may quote your
> analysis here and there.
>
>> Let me put it this way - New Orleans is a recent example of an
>> unwitnessed hammer that is considered a fall.
> Got it.
>
>> In this particular case, nobody directly witnessed the fall or the
>> damage
>> being done.
> Understood.
>
>> if it is a
>> hammer in the true and accepted sense, then it could be called a
>> "hammer fall" or "witnessed fall" or "observed fall" or just a "fall"
>
> Having cognitive issues at this juncture. If it isn't witnessed, but it is
> considered a 'hammer fall', then how can 'hammer falls', in their
> entirity,
> be a subset of witnessed or observed falls. Surely the definition of fall
> must therefore include unobserved meteorite arrivals (i.e. unobserved
> hammer
> falls).You cannot have a witnessed unwitnessed event. Well not in my book
> anyway. Then again I am not Orwell.
>
> Personally, I think it's bad nomenclature, but I can easily imagine how
> this
> sort of stuff arises. A few weeks ago after reading some of the many
> Sutters
> Mill accounts from the field I went for an idle stroll along a deserted
> track in rural Ukraine. I noticed in the distance some semilustrous
> subspherical objects, and for a while on my approach my imagination was
> giving rise to mild tachycardia. On intimate inspection I found some
> nicely
> dimpled droppings from a deer or something. After recovery from this
> crushing disappointment, I thought it would be appropriate to propose a
> new
> subclass of Leaverite called 'Meteorshite'. However thinking on this now,
> all meteorshites would not necessarily be leaverites. A bedouin coming
> across the wrong sort of Camel Donga (ok mixing continents here but give
> me
> some latitude please), might not be thinking leaverite, he might be
> thinking
> campfire for barbeque.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: "John Hendry" <pict at pict.co.uk>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hammer fall term (this poor poor horse)
>
>
>> Hi John and List,
>>
>> Good question. Let me attempt to answer. If I fail, perhaps Capt.
>> Blood will chime in or another hammerhead will jump to the rescue.
>>
>> All hammers are falls, because if a hammer falls and nobody is around
>> to notice it, it will never be discovered....and is therefore not a
>> hammer or a fall.
>>
>> Let me put it this way - New Orleans is a recent example of an
>> unwitnessed hammer that is considered a fall. When the New Orleans
>> meteorite fell, penetrated the house and left a path of minor
>> destruction (writing desk, etc), nobody was home. The owners were out
>> and did not come home to find the cosmic damage until later. In this
>> particular case, nobody directly witnessed the fall or the damage
>> being done. If I recall correctly, there were no indirect witnesses
>> as well - no radar track, no fireball video, no other witnesses on the
>> ground. The find was determined to be a fall based on - the freshness
>> of the material found, the testimony of the homeowners, and the
>> obvious damage caused by this material.
>>
>> Met Bull states that the New Orleans meteorite is a fall, so it is
>> therefore a "observed fall" or "witnessed fall" in officially-approved
>> nomenclature and accepted use amongst the majority of collectors and
>> dealers. Additionally, some hammerheads may refer to it as a "hammer
>> fall". Also of note, New Orleans is a single stone fall, therefore
>> the New Orleans meteorite is a "hammer stone" because it struck a
>> house and manmade objects.
>>
>> Under different circumstances, the New Orleans meteorite may have gone
>> unnoticed and unreported. The lower 9th Ward of New Orleans is
>> desolate today, as a result of lingering damage from hurricane
>> Katrina. Large stretches of homes and businesses are vacant and
>> falling into disrepair. There are squatters, homeless persons, gang
>> elements, and other transients that reside in the area. The same is
>> true for other areas of New Orleans to varying degrees. If the stone
>> had fallen in one of these houses, with no first-hand witnesses, it is
>> likely to lay undiscovered and be carted off to the landfill when the
>> city finally bulldozes the property. In such a case, the fall and
>> damage were never noticed, it is never reported, no material is ever
>> recovered, and the meteorite is never officially recognized or named.
>>
>> Also keep in mind, the criteria for officially approving a meteorite
>> as a "fall" has changed to some degree over the years. Or could say,
>> the criteria was more rigidly enforced in some publications than
>> others. There are several cases of witnessed falls where the witness
>> reports are several years or more removed from recovery of specimens
>> on the ground. Some fall dates have uncertain dates or just a date
>> range (summer of 18xx, etc). Some finds could be regarded as falls
>> and there is some debate or uncertainty around the circumstances (or
>> find location) that resulted in a fall classification being rejected.
>>
>> So, what I am getting at in a rambling fashion is this - if it is a
>> hammer in the true and accepted sense, then it could be called a
>> "hammer fall" or "witnessed fall" or "observed fall" or just a "fall"
>> - depending on whether or not the term is being used officially or
>> just casually.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> PS - I think this horse is now officially pulverized beyond
>> recognition. To continue this discussion line any further will
>> require someone to acquire a new horse for consideration and possible
>> flogging.
>>
>> --
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - MikeG
>>
>> Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>> RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/12, John Hendry <pict at pict.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Any hammer finds recorded? i.e. there's a big stone in the attic and a
>>> hole
>>>
>>> in the roof, but nobody saw it fall.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>
>
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Received on Thu 14 Jun 2012 05:02:39 PM PDT