[meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss

From: Michael Farmer <mike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 08:28:20 -0600
Message-ID: <9819665A-B809-430C-957E-DD0A1B8EC801_at_meteoriteguy.com>

All of the scams lately from Kansas to Mifflin to Texas are really starting to be a blight on meteorites. Sad that these falls seem to bring out the scammers wanting to cash in. Now you all know exactly why the Whetstone Mountains meteorite fall was closely controlled and information was not published. Pieces are still being found there in great condition and without drama.
Michael Farmer


Michael Farmer

Sent from my iPad

On May 8, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pics of the find in situ with gps coords should settle this.
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I think greg should get booted or at least suspended from here for spreading made up BS on here that could ruin my reputation. This is NOT RIGHT. I am so very very POed right now. I cant even believe Im reading this crap. Why did you make this up, THEN POST IT. Cmon grag. I know we never got along, but this?
>> Best Wishes,
>> Joe Kerchner
>> http://illinoismeteorites.com
>> http://skyrockcafe.com
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>> To: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>, "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, jasonutas at gmail.com, "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM
>>> Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List,
>>>
>>> Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing
>>> meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been
>>> lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair
>>> and mention I've also made some really great friendships.
>>> Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by
>>> my own naivet?' and an innate character fault I
>>> have.....and that is I want to believe everything that is
>>> said to me.
>>>
>>> I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not
>>> knowing it was stolen.
>>>
>>> This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want
>>> anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would
>>> appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated
>>> as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the
>>> meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value.
>>>
>>> Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish,
>>> whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any
>>> dealings I may have had with him too.
>>>
>>> Count Deiro
>>> IMCA 3536
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM
>>>> To: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
>>> jasonutas at gmail.com,
>>> Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>>>
>>>> Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies
>>> and secrets. I think the truth should be out there.
>>>> About Joes "awesome" stone...
>>>>
>>>> He told me personally and we also talked over email
>>> about it... he found it on the same persons property that
>>> someone else had already stolen a stone from.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second
>>> hand BS.
>>>>
>>>> He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story
>>> published about his finding it under a bridge.
>>>>
>>>> So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed
>>> his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he
>>> lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the
>>> "Kerchner Stone"
>>>> Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos
>>> land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney
>>> went...
>>>>
>>>> Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time.
>>>>
>>>> I took public one person who stole material from
>>> Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the
>>> whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know
>>> many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other
>>> person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on
>>> this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greg Catterton
>>>> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
>>>> IMCA member 4682
>>>> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
>>>> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>>>> To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
>>> jasonutas at gmail.com
>>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM
>>>>> Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list.
>>>>> Intriguing situation, Jason. Thanks for
>>> sharing.
>>>>> And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful
>>> little
>>>>> slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much "drama"
>>> in it,
>>>>> though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough
>>> to be able
>>>>> to both keep some and sell enough to feed his
>>> family. That's
>>>>> just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe!
>>>>> Linton
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Alan"
>>> <photophlow at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: <jasonutas at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason and Listers,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a very interesting post in the since I
>>> have to say
>>>>> something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder
>>> contacts
>>>>> Carl and has him send cash to a PO box..... Red
>>> flag. Two
>>>>> the phone number is disconnected..... Three the
>>> transaction
>>>>> was done in cash. I have to say with those three
>>> elements
>>>>> this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If
>>> this was a
>>>>> legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the
>>> correct ways
>>>>> via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending
>>> cash in
>>>>> the mail to a PO BOX?
>>>>>
>>>>> As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a
>>> terrestrial age
>>>>> analysis and also have a cre done which can prove
>>> or
>>>>> disprove this theory that someone is suggesting
>>> that Mifflin
>>>>> has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the
>>> case and
>>>>> that these stones are not related to Mifflin in
>>> anyway from
>>>>> the evidence presented by Jason.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to
>>> assume
>>>>> that one this scammer knew what they were doing
>>> and somehow
>>>>> was or is connected to the meteorite collecting
>>> world or
>>>>> they are really smart and picked up how to scam
>>> meteorite
>>>>> hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two
>>> they knew of
>>>>> the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly
>>> fallen
>>>>> meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in
>>> question is a
>>>>> real meteorite but not from the same fall.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the scammer is one of us or is connected
>>> to one of
>>>>> us just because of the circumstances of the event
>>> and that
>>>>> the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion
>>> crust. If
>>>>> it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have
>>> been a
>>>>> stone, but this was not the case it was a real
>>> meteorite in
>>>>> the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good
>>> to be
>>>>> done by some non meteorite collector but again
>>> people are
>>>>> getting smarter these days to make some cash. But
>>> this means
>>>>> that this scammer would have to buy a real
>>> meteorite to turn
>>>>> around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I can say is if I came into this situation I
>>> would have
>>>>> thought the sale would have been a scam right from
>>> the start
>>>>> with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad
>>> I didn't
>>>>> buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe
>>> Kerchner
>>>>> which that had some drama in its self as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents
>>>>>
>>>>> Shawn Alan
>>>>> IMCA 1633
>>>>> eBaystore
>>>>> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>>>> jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com
>>>>> Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011
>>>>>
>>>>> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is
>>> everyone?
>>>>> Facebook?
>>>>> Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
>>>>> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
>>> ] [
>>>>> author ]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>
>>>>> My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw
>>> some
>>>>> strange pieces
>>>>> of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny.
>>> People
>>>>> were talking
>>>>> about the meteorite having two lithologies,
>>> but...the
>>>>> slices and
>>>>> individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few
>>> looked
>>>>> like
>>>>> H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of
>>> wear that
>>>>> freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges,
>>> exposed
>>>>> metal flakes
>>>>> on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had
>>> been worn
>>>>> off due to
>>>>> improper packing), etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the time, I did nothing but send a private
>>> email to Anne
>>>>> Black
>>>>> notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some
>>> other
>>>>> prominent
>>>>> list-members addressing it, and they all agreed
>>> that the
>>>>> material
>>>>> looked funny, but that nothing could be done about
>>> it given
>>>>> the
>>>>> required burden of proof.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I sat on my hands for several months.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the
>>> funny-looking
>>>>> 'Mifflin' on
>>>>> ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I
>>> remembered
>>>>> seeing on
>>>>> ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was
>>> able to
>>>>> see both the
>>>>> stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent
>>> metal
>>>>> grains on the
>>>>> stone's exterior.
>>>>>
>>>>> I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the
>>> end-cut, and
>>>>> it
>>>>> arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When
>>> we
>>>>> returned, I
>>>>> promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of
>>> the
>>>>> University of
>>>>> Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone
>>> posthaste.
>>>>>
>>>>> The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait
>>> until the
>>>>> probe was
>>>>> recallibrated so that he could run it again to be
>>> sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was
>>> an
>>>>> equilibrated
>>>>> H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For
>>> comparison,
>>>>> Chergach and
>>>>> Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and
>>> 18.6,
>>>>> respectively.
>>>>>
>>>>> University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of
>>> the work
>>>>> on the
>>>>> Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum,
>>> over
>>>>> twenty separate
>>>>> stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin
>>> is
>>>>> classified as an
>>>>> L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so
>>> he could
>>>>> confirm that
>>>>> the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the
>>> piece that I
>>>>> had sent
>>>>> him. He did.
>>>>>
>>>>> I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough
>>> (IMCA), who
>>>>> purchased it
>>>>> from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from
>>> Greg
>>>>> Catterton (IMCA),
>>>>> who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the
>>> finder.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl told me the following story over the phone:
>>>>> He was contacted "out of the blue" by someone
>>> hunting in
>>>>> the Mifflin
>>>>> strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated
>>> that he
>>>>> thought
>>>>> there was a "conspiracy against him," because no
>>> one would
>>>>> offer him
>>>>> more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were
>>> worth more
>>>>> than that.
>>>>> So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder
>>> $10/g,
>>>>> and a deal was
>>>>> struck.
>>>>>
>>>>> But...the finder asked that he not be paid via
>>> paypal or
>>>>> wire
>>>>> transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the
>>> first of
>>>>> two 'Mifflin'
>>>>> stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It
>>> should be
>>>>> noted that
>>>>> Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in
>>> this deal,
>>>>> and Greg
>>>>> sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for
>>> the
>>>>> stones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his
>>> old
>>>>> computer recently
>>>>> died, so he lacks the name and email address of
>>> the finder,
>>>>> as well as
>>>>> the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he
>>> sent the
>>>>> money. Carl
>>>>> is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from
>>> the
>>>>> transaction which
>>>>> would prove that he did make a large cash
>>> withdrawal for
>>>>> the stones.
>>>>> I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he
>>> told me
>>>>> that he had
>>>>> recently tried to call the finder, himself, only
>>> to find
>>>>> that the
>>>>> number had been disconnected.
>>>>> He was unwilling to share the number with me,
>>> regardless.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had
>>> likely
>>>>> ripped him
>>>>> off, and he said that he believed that it was the
>>> reason
>>>>> why he had
>>>>> been asked to send the money untraceably, as he
>>> did; Carl
>>>>> described
>>>>> the situation as a "typical scam."
>>>>>
>>>>> He also suggested that the stones *might* be from
>>> an
>>>>> unrelated fall -- or could be the result of
>>> Mifflin being an
>>>>> 'Almahata Sitta sort of
>>>>> fall.'
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they
>>> are
>>>>> unlikely for the
>>>>> following reasons:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history
>>> of
>>>>> meteoritics.
>>>>> Different lithologies have been observed in many
>>>>> meteorites, but to
>>>>> have individual stones of completely different
>>> and
>>>>> unrelated meteorite
>>>>> types falling separately is unique. Out of the
>>> 1,238
>>>>> accepted
>>>>> observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only
>>> one has
>>>>> exhibited
>>>>> individuals that have consisted of different
>>> meteorite
>>>>> types (for
>>>>> example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc).
>>>>>
>>>>> And it's not that we haven't been looking for
>>> similar
>>>>> events; with
>>>>> each and every fall, multiple stones are analyzed,
>>> and the
>>>>> simple fact
>>>>> of the matter is that they are always
>>> similar...with *one*
>>>>> exception.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How much of
>>> an
>>>>> exception? 0.08%
>>>>> of meteorite falls are like it. Less than a tenth
>>> of a
>>>>> percent.
>>>>> Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also have to
>>> wonder
>>>>> about why
>>>>> or how this hunter managed to find the only two
>>> H's from
>>>>> the fall that
>>>>> were recognized. Over twenty other stones were
>>> studied and
>>>>> this
>>>>> finder supposedly turned up two or three that were
>>> all H's.
>>>>> It's 'funny.'
>>>>>
>>>>> The other possibility that Carl advocated is that
>>> the
>>>>> stones may actually
>>>>> have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may be
>>> part of a
>>>>> new fall that
>>>>> somehow slipped under the radar. He initially
>>> suggested
>>>>> that they were
>>>>> from the fireball widely seen across the Midwest
>>> on May
>>>>> 10th, but, at the
>>>>> time, I had paypal records from Greg that stated
>>> that he
>>>>> had sent Carl the
>>>>> money for the stones as early as April 24th.
>>>>> So we ruled out that possibility..
>>>>>
>>>>> But, I agree; the stones could theoretically have
>>> come from
>>>>> a
>>>>> different fall. The end-cut that I bought showed
>>> no visible
>>>>> signs of
>>>>> weathering. No oxide, no anything. Given the
>>> weather in and
>>>>> around
>>>>> Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can assume
>>> that the
>>>>> stones were
>>>>> picked up within a week or so of having fallen. No
>>> AMS
>>>>> reports of
>>>>> anything in the region for the given timeframe
>>> doesn't
>>>>> disprove
>>>>> anything since meteorites often fall without much
>>> ado,
>>>>> but...two falls
>>>>> in the same place *at the same time?*
>>>>> Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you've still got to wonder about why no one
>>> else found
>>>>> any
>>>>> H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. It's not
>>> like
>>>>> meteorites were
>>>>> laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who found
>>> stones out
>>>>> there put
>>>>> considerable time into hunting -- and they all
>>> found only
>>>>> L5's. So if
>>>>> Carl's source were telling the truth, and he did
>>> find the
>>>>> stones, it
>>>>> seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting in the
>>> Mifflin
>>>>> strewn-field, because, if he were, he would 1)
>>> probably
>>>>> have found
>>>>> L5's, and 2) other people would probably have
>>> found H's as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>
>>>>> The conclusion I draw from this is that the truth
>>> has
>>>>> become
>>>>> well-hidden. What is certain is that I have been
>>> refunded
>>>>> by
>>>>> Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has been
>>> refunded
>>>>> by
>>>>> Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been refunded
>>> by Greg
>>>>> Catterton.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I have heard, however, is that Carl has been
>>> defending
>>>>> the
>>>>> legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to
>>> refund Greg
>>>>> Catterton.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin or
>>> another
>>>>> meteorite
>>>>> (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't matter),
>>> the
>>>>> simple fact
>>>>> of the matter is that the material sold by Carl
>>> has been
>>>>> shown to be
>>>>> different from how it was advertised, and as such,
>>> he
>>>>> should be
>>>>> willing to accept its return for a refund. If he
>>> wishes to
>>>>> get it
>>>>> analyzed and sell it to others as a new meteorite,
>>> that is
>>>>> his
>>>>> concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and Greg
>>>>> unknowingly sold the
>>>>> material as Mifflin, believing that it was indeed
>>> what they
>>>>> sold it
>>>>> as.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is my 2 cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jason Utas
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
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Received on Sun 08 May 2011 10:28:20 AM PDT