[meteorite-list] Sedimentary Martian Meteorites

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:07:05 +0100
Message-ID: <006201cbe8cc$b8124a90$2836dfb0$_at_de>

Hiho,

>I think we will find sedimentary meteorites in a hurry.

Why do you think so?


To me it seems even not so easy and trivial to find a "normal" Martian
meteorite.

There are only 56 among the 10,000-20,000 different meteorites known.

And among the 40,000-100,000+++ stones and fragments picked up in
Antarctica, only 25 stones or so were Martians.(of 15 different).

Falls... 1200+ observed falls - all the same 4 came down.

On the whole North American continent only 1 Martian was found so far. (and
1 in an old collection).

Hence if Martian sediments were only as numerous as "normal" Martian
meteorites, it would be quite a difficult task.

(I'm living in an area of the World, where even the recovery of an ordinary
chondrite is quite a sensation).


So I guess, you simply have to have some patience.
All the very recent 15 years so many unusual and whack stones were found and
classified to be meteorites, which no mortal would have picked up suspecting
them to be meteoritic,
therefore we fully can trust in all the hundreds of anonymous true experts
combing the Sahara, the not so anonymous expert hunters in Oman and in the
campaigns on the blue icefields.

If there are sedimentary meteorites, they will find them.

Precondition is only, that you allow the people to hunt. If you have
something e.g. like in Australia then of course it is impossible to find a
sedimentary one, because then even something not so rare like a CV3 or an
EUC is exponentially more seldom found, says the Bulletin, then elsewhere
the Martians or the Lunars.
That's the only problem, where politics plays a role.
(But don't worry such a mediaeval or pre-modern position like current
Australian meteoritics presents, is rather a position of scientific
outcasts.)

I read somewhere, that the upper crust of Earth consists of rocks.
Methodically it would make not so much sense to measure them all, whether
they are of meteoritic origin. And everyone who has a webpage about
meteorites can tell you a thing or two about how many hundreds of alleged
meteorites the people offload on each of them each year.

Juuust a little patience.
Martin


  





-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
cdtucson at cox.net
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. M?rz 2011 18:00
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; 'Walter Branch'; David Norton
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Sedimentary Martian Meteorites

David, Walter, list,
I think you may be right here.
Maybe they have no fusion crust.
Perhaps my link to the artificial meteorite study did not work so here it is
again;

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Stone_6_Artificial_Meteorite_Shows_Martian
_Impactors_Could_Carry_Traces_Of_Life_999.html

It clearly states as a matter of fact that sedimentary rocks either had a
white crust or no crust at all when put to the test.

So, if this is the science speaking. Why should we expect anything but white
crust or No crust at all?
This suggests that the only way a Scientist is going to be willing to spend
their time on anything like this is if they are paid to do it.
So far Nobody is actually paid to do it. I have been told this by professors
themselves. That they do meteorite classifications as a side job and only if
they want to.
 As a case in point. I showed a well known lunar expert a cut and polished
stone. I told him that many people in the meteorite field have seen this
stone and all believe it to be of Lunar origin. He looked closely at it with
a loop and said;" it does look like a lunar. It has a good 50% chance of it
being Lunar But, I have NO interest in classifying it. Call Dolores". That
is an exact quote. I emailed Dolores and Dolores does not respond to my
emails or phone messages.
 I was told by her husband that she too has no incentive to classify even
Lunar's. He went on to say that they can apply for federal money (grants)
after a meteorite is authenticated but NOT before. So, maybe down the road
they may be able to get paid to study the rock but, Not until later. In her
defense she is super busy with the MESSENGER Mercury mission and from what I
understand will be for quite some time.
This is a very sad story. Why doesn't NASA fund this? I mean we talk about
NASA's great accomplishments in space yet they seem to ignore the freebies
found here on Earth. And finally the other problem is access. Politics plays
a huge role in classification. There are certain people who get rock star
treatment when it comes to hot finds while others are ignored. Sure , high
profile players should get the attention of scientists but, I'm told others
are actually being "blackballed" by scientists? So, again I say. put
politics aside by giving scientists an incentive with cash and I think we
will find sedimentary meteorites in a hurry.
If it's true that meteorites have their own ranges of chemistry and if it's
true that they can be charted and graphed by scientists like Randy Korotev
as documented evidence that they are purported to be. If it plots on the
chart correctly then that is proof it is Lunar and if it does not plot that
is proof it is not. Then, I see Blain Reed's XRF gun as a great aid to
Scientists. Here he has an opportunity to weed out the bad prospects and
document the chemistry of the good ones. The ones that do plot on those
very exclusive charts and graphs should be looked at with priority.
But, even with having all the right chemistry and all the right minerals. We
still need Oxygen isotopes done to clinch the deal.
This is not available to the public. So, we still need to convince
Scientists that what we have may be a meteorite.
As a hunter for 23 years I know that there are a lot of odd and out of place
rocks out there.
So hopefully some day we can overcome all of these problems. I think money
is the answer.
Carl

Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- David Norton <renov8hotels at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I would think the answer to your question is simpler than the science
trying
> to explain why we do not have this material in our possession. The stones
in
> questions are more likely unrecognized, particularly if there is a lack of
> fusion crust. Reference our own understanding (recognition) of meteorites
50
> years ago and 100 years ago. Our knowledge base has expanded substantially
> and continues to improve (evolve) as more material is studied. For those
of
> you who have seen hundreds or thousands of meteorites and compare those
> observations to the "meteorite identification checklists" that can be
found
> commonly, you know that the atypical exists everywhere.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Walter
> Branch
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 7:57 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Sedimentary Martian Meteorites
>
> Hello Steve, Carl and List,
>
> Thanks very much for the comments.
>
> I am at a distinct disadvantage, not having a background in geology so
> please bear with me.
>
> I understand exothermic processes but...
>
> The oldest sedimentary rocks are found in various places such as
Greenland,
> Hudson Bay in northern Quebec, Western Australia, etc. These rocks are
> billions of years old, yet they are still recognized as sedimentary rocks.

> Why? Should they not have disappeared long ago? Would you say these
rocks
> were never exposed to heat, water or weathering?
>
> I would think that traveling through space, where obviously no terrestrial

> weathering occurs, potential Martian sedimentary rocks would not undergo
> weathering until they landed on Earth which would be on the order of
> millions of years ago. Much more recent than the oldest Earth sedimentary
> rocks.
>
> It may very well be that the reason we don't have any Martian sedimentary
> rocks in our collections (scientific and otherwise) is because they have
all
>
> weathered away or at least to the point where we would not recognize them
as
>
> being Martian, or even meteoritic, in origin.
>
> Yes, I have looked at Dr. Irving's site.
>
> http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm
>
> It's a great site and is on my favorites list but he doesn't speculate as
to
>
> why we have no Martian sedimentary rocks, which is what I am most
interested
>
> in.
>
>
> -Walter
>
>
>
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Received on Tue 22 Mar 2011 04:07:05 PM PDT