[meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass

From: Mark Grossman <markig_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:55:25 -0500
Message-ID: <5507993D759841BFA5A19ABE2B92207D_at_QED>

I purchased a historic specimen and the person who originally was supposed
to have provided it identified the writing on the back of the specimen box
as their own. This established a chain of provenance through 2 or 3
reputable dealers back to the source and then to a museum.

But it was the source identifying the handwriting on the back that made the
sale and established a nice chain of custody in my opinion.

Mark

Mark Grossman
Briarcliff Manor, NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; "Rob Lenssen"
<rlenssen at planet.nl>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass


> Hi Matt and List,
>
> Yes, that is great idea. Signing the cards introduces a great
> difficulty for those who seek to copy a card or produce a bogus card.
> As obvious as it seems, that idea never occurred to me. Now I might
> start issuing cards and signing them. I never issued cards previously
> because I viewed them the same way as COA's - easy to reproduce and
> not worth the paper they are printed on. But signing them makes them
> more meaningful.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On 3/4/11, mail at mhmeteorites.com <mail at mhmeteorites.com> wrote:
>> You bring up good points.
>> Recently I have been signing my cards, as some others did (Hupe, Haag).
>> Very
>> difficult to copy my signature. This may stop one from being
>> unscrupulous.
>> Matt
>> ------------------------
>> Matt Morgan
>> Mile High Meteorites
>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>> P.O. Box 151293
>> Lakewood, CO 80215
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 18:24:33
>> To: Mike Bandli<fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Rob
>> Lenssen<rlenssen at planet.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
>>
>> Hi Gang,
>>
>> This is just my opinion, so others' mileage may vary.
>>
>> I do not include specimen cards with the pieces I sell for one primary
>> reason, explained below.
>>
>> 1) I include a small identification label for each specimen that shows
>> the name of the specimen, type, location/date of the find/fall and my
>> URL.
>>
>> 2) I do not include the original specimen card (from the dealer I
>> acquired it from) unless it is specifically requested. If the buyer
>> requests it, I will provide a copy of the original card.
>>
>> Personally, I do not find specimen cards to be a convincing method of
>> proving provenance because anyone with a printer can make a copy of
>> any specimen card they want. With a scanner, a person could copy any
>> specimen card in the world and insert whatever information they want
>> using Photoshop. To me, such cards are nice to have, but they prove
>> nothing. The same can be said for "certificates of authenticity"
>> which are not worth the paper they are printed on.
>>
>> In my view, you either trust your dealer or you do not. A card or
>> certificate might make one feel better about provenance, but it
>> ultimately means or proves nothing.
>>
>> Having said that, I enjoy specimen cards and I collect them. I have a
>> large box full of cards from dozens of different dealers and
>> collections. But I do not count them as "proof" that a given specimen
>> is genuine. I trust my sources for that authenticity, not the small
>> printed cards they give me.
>>
>> Best regards and happy collecting!
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>>
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/4/11, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> Make your own card that reflects the updated weight and include the
>>> original
>>> dealer/collector card that reflects the old weight.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Mike Bandli
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Bandli
>>> Historic Meteorites
>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>> and join us on Facebook:
>>> www.facebook.com/Meteorites1
>>> IMCA #5765
>>> -----------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rob
>>> Lenssen
>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:45 PM
>>> To: 'Rob Wesel'; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
>>>
>>> Hi Guy's,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the answers, but - except Stuart's - they are not answering
>>> the
>>> question "how to deal with changing mass".
>>> I think everybody will agree that the original card must stay with the
>>> piece.
>>>
>>> I make my own cards only for stones I bought in Morocco and had
>>> classified
>>> myself.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>>> Van: Rob Wesel [mailto:nakhladog at comcast.net]
>>> Verzonden: vrijdag 4 maart 2011 22:38
>>> Aan: actionshooting at carolina.rr.com;
>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com;
>>> Mike Bandli; 'Rob Lenssen'
>>> Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
>>>
>>> In response to Stuart
>>>
>>> Nininger, DuPont, LaPaz....
>>>
>>> Not IMCA members but I'm glad they made those cards
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob Wesel
>>> www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
>>> www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites
>>> www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel
>>> ------------------
>>> We are the music makers...
>>> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
>>> Willy Wonka, 1971
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: <actionshooting at carolina.rr.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:33 PM
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mike Bandli"
>>> <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>; "'Rob Lenssen'" <rlenssen at planet.nl>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Cards - changing mass
>>>
>>>> I agree. I keep all the cards you guys send me when I purchase. I have
>>>> been thinking about doing my own card but it really is meaning less
>>>> not being an IMCA member or the original finder.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe make an "entry" on the back of the original card as to whom you
>>>> received it from and forward it when you sell it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stuart McD
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Received on Fri 04 Mar 2011 06:55:25 PM PST