[meteorite-list] Moon Dust

From: cdtucson at cox.net <*cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:50:13 -0400 Message-ID: <20110626125013.JHZLY.993720.imail_at_fed1rmwml29> · cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com

--

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote". 

---- "John.L.Cabassi" <John at Cabassi.net> wrote: 
> http://www.thespaceshop.com/shuttilin.html
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> Michael Gilmer
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 8:20 AM
> To: MexicoDoug
> Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
> 
> 
> Hi Doug and List,
> 
> Doug - it is great to see you posting again.  I have missed your
> insights.  :)
> 
> They are selling heat tiles from the shuttles at KSC?  I didn't know
> that, and I want one!
> 
> I've been meaning to acquire some more space-related items - aerogel,
> heat shield tiles, etc.
> 
> Do they have a website where I can order the tiles, or do I need to
> visit the gift shop in person?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> PS - is there somewhere online to buy the Russian tiles also?
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
> 
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> 
> On 6/25/11, MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:
> > JG wrote to MG:
> > "What law are you talking about?"
> >
> > Ditto! A fact-supported discussion would be so much nicer.
> >
> > It is my understanding that when Apollo lost its funding, oodles of 
> > relics entered the private domain and there wasn't much ado about it -
> 
> > rather, a tacit acceptance and a party atmosphere pervaded in the wake
> 
> > of Moonphoria and non had any scientific value at the time. Where are 
> > the retroactive vigorous sting operations hunting down these national 
> > treasures? I am sure the same "laws", whatever they might be, cover 
> > them.
> >
> > Post-facto contrived rules are a violation which seems to date to the 
> > Magna Carta and any remotely civilized society. All material loaned or
> 
> > provided in exchange for analyses to be done which is covered by 
> > modern agreements (as Jeff alludes to) has a clear paper trail, but 
> > there are the nonsensical cases like tape on the Hasselblad magazines 
> > demonstrate how ludicrous things can become for reasons foreign to 
> > science and domestic to collectors willingness to pay. I take my place
> 
> > behind the line of those who have already pointed this out.
> >
> > Moon specimens that were incidental and innocuous gifts of 
> > questionable or no value at the time seem to have taken a special 
> > place. But, there are other exceptions as well. As I peruse the aisles
> 
> > of the gift shop at KSC I am tempted to buy a Space Shuttle heat tile.
> 
> > Yet NASA has allegedly gone on record saying that it will not dispose 
> > of them by sale to the public (reason: we could be liable for 
> > unintended harm they might cause). Rumor has it that the Soviet Buran 
> > tiles are more interesting to collect and Russia has no such hang ups 
> > over them, so I'll hold out for one of them. If I had an American one 
> > it would not be satisfying in present company. I couldn't freely share
> 
> > it with my international friends without risking being thrown in jail 
> > for providing sensitive military secrets to other nations... at least 
> > that is the rumor on how it was for a long time ...
> >
> > There is a clear demonstration of double standard and a willingness to
> 
> > invent retroactive laws, which should be prohibited constitutionally, 
> > but the American system separates the judicial and that makes 
> > legislation from the bench a convenient option in cases like this. How
> 
> > frustrating for Mr. Rosen, the guy who bought the gifted moon rock 
> > from a Honduran official for a large sum of money. The government 
> > simply snatched it from him and it was not because the Hondurans filed
> 
> > a claim. If he had been compensated for his recovery of the specimen 
> > it would be different in my view. But the way it went down, there is 
> > reason to be wary of the court's freeloading and arbitrary mindset in 
> > these cases. It is quite removed from science and boils down to 
> > politics and setting cruel and unusual precedents at the expense of 
> > citizens for prior shoddy control practices. Mr. Rosen, the owner at 
> > the time of the Moon rock was never charged with any criminal activity
> > - they just took the rock plaque and left him to brood. If they could 
> > have charged him I sort of think they would have given the zest to 
> > make examples out of people. But they got what they wanted - a 
> > precedent of no-ownership when before there was none to my knowledge.
> >
> > I would point out that this nonsensical legal gymnastic that seems to 
> > have developed ought to be applied to each and every scientist in the 
> > United States that is on any payroll or grant for a project who 
> > supposedly buys specimens in his free time. How different is such 
> > piggybacking from the microgram residues on a piece of tape out of a 
> > camera? How did Dr. King amass that huge personal collection on many 
> > field trips to places such as, aw, forget it. Not worth going into, it
> 
> > would be more counterproductive than good to go there.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Grossman <jngrossman at gmail.com>
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 8:34 pm
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust
> >
> >
> > What law are you talking about?
> >
> > On 6/25/2011 7:55 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote:
> >> Hi Jeff and List,
> >>
> >> What strikes me here is that NASA has 842 pounds of lunar material
> > and
> >> they are apparently bent out shape over a few milligrams of dust 
> >> clinging to a piece of scotch tape. It's absolutely silly and it 
> >> speaks of skewed priorities.
> >>
> >> It was mentioned to me in private email by a respected list member 
> >> that the NASA samples in question were not addressed by the law until
> 
> >> 1972. If that is true, then it seems to me that any sample removed 
> >> legally prior to that date would be "grand-fathered in" as legal.
> >>
> >> A relevant example would be trinitite. Trinitite removed before the 
> >> law specifically addressed it is legal. However, going to the site 
> >> now and removing trinitite is illegal. Another example would be 
> >> Canyon Diablo iron meteorites - those CD meteorites removed before
> > the
> >> "prohibition" are legal. Those removed today are illegal because one 
> >> must trespass to get them. The devil is in the details - how does one
> 
> >> distinguish a legal Diablo meteorite from an illegal one? And how 
> >> would one determine a legal piece of dusty tape from an illegal one?
> >>
> >> ATTENTION GOVERNMENT - STOP PISSING AWAY OUR TAX MONEY CHASING AFTER 
> >> DUSTY TAPE! Instead, here are some suggestions for using our tax 
> >> money - build homes for the homeless, feed the hungry, offer medical 
> >> care to the sick, create jobs for the unemployed, fund the sciences, 
> >> or any number of things that are more important than dusty tape.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> MikeG
> >>
> >
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