[meteorite-list] YD event, western meteorites

From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 02:36:48 -0400
Message-ID: <8CE1A3EB2495677-880-1604A_at_web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Ed

What is the half-life you are considering for accurate oral
history/tradition before it becomes swallowed up in the background
noise of natural events and stories ... especially when not only
generations are born and die, but as their cultures come and go as well?

I love the interpretations you provide, but once everyone is dead, then
what? ... Second, third, fourth and fifth hand information. When
chasing meteorite falls, I have found second generation (mis)
information absolutely useless. For 5000 years, as an example, that is
around 100 stretched out generations. I would say that right now, to
track down a witnessed fall for which there is no written record to
assist with recovery locations, for example, we are looking at the late
1940's to date and that is really stretching it, before the information
loses its integrity and actually can become a liability rather than
starting with a clean slate. The half life for that is thus between 10
- 15 years..

I'm just curious to how you deal with this distortion and loss in your
research.

Kindest wishes
Doug





-----Original Message-----
From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, Jul 26, 2011 9:45 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] YD event, western meteorites


Hi Paul -

The supernova hypothesis does not explain the sudden cooling of the
Pacific
Current off of the Northwest Pacific Coast.

Let me run through a hypothetical mechanism again: the Berring straits
are
opened by a northward drainage of glacial Lake Agassiz, apparently
triggered by
impact this time. Cooler water off the Pacific Coast results in less
warm moist
air over northen North America (Canada) wdhich results in less
snowfall. That in
turn reflects less sunlight back into space, and global temperatures
rise.

It is nice to see someone giving Mr. Cox's features the attention they
deserve.

Hi Rich -

The effect of this cooling current is what the western Lakes
archaeologists are
speaking of.

For events at the YD itself, we have two Assiboine accounts:

THE ASSINIBOINE ACCOUNTS IN ADRIEN MAYOR'S RETELLING

Fragment 1:

"One Assiniboine name for bones of monstrous size was "Wau-wau-kah".
This was a
"half spirit, half animal" imagined as a great river monster with long
black[?]hair, scales, and horns like trees.

Myth [tradition - epg] tells of its death by the impact of a "thunder
stone", a
black ["black" due to the ablation surface seen in the meteorites which
the
Nakota collected - epg], projectile that came whistling out of the west
with
"terrible velocity", "defeaning noise", and a bright flash - a scenario
that
seems akin to the modern theory of an asteroid impact 65 million years
ago
[Mayor gets so close here :P - epg].

"My bones may be found", warned the Water Monster Wau-wau-kah, but
unless the
Assiniboines made offerings to its spirit, the monster vowed to create
disastrous floods and block their trails with its colossal bones."

Fragment 2:

"A tale [tradition - epg] of the antagonism between Thunder and Water
Monsters
was recounted by an Assiniboine story teller [tradition keeper - epg]
(perhaps
Coming Day? - AM) in 1909 at Fort Belknap.

"Long ago, some Sioux and Assiniboines camping at a big lake witnessed
a battle
between Thunder Bird and a Water Monster on an island in the lake."

The storyteller's grandmother had told him that:
"as the Thunder Bird drew the writhing monster up from the island, the
Indians'
hair and their horses manes, ["horses manes" a non-temporal insertion -
epg]
stood on end from the electricity. ["electricity" - another
non-temporal
insertion. Perhaps also a simple telling of a large electrophorenic
effect. -
epg]

"The Thunder Bird's lightening ignited raging forest fires; then a long
terrible
blizzard followed; and still later the lake bed dried up and many kinds
of
animals perished there."

THIS WAS AT THE YD IMPACT -

Paul, which western lake was it?

In regards to the "horses manes", it needs to be noted that a rider on
a horse
in the plains is a high point that will attract lightening, much as a
golfer on
a gold course will, and thus it was important to learn the signs of an
impending
lightening strike.

METEORITES - For everyone else here:

In the footnotes we also find these two items on the Pawnee:
"Besides an interest in fossils, the Pawnees were also keenly aware of
meteorites, which they located and collected after observing their
trajectories.
Indeed, the Kansas prairie is one of the best places on Earth to find
meteorites." page 377

"Pawnee priests were concerned with astronomy, while Pawnee doctors
dealt with
earth phenomena, such as fossils. page 376

If you find meteorites on a ledge, or with human bones, in that area,
leave
them.

Sonny, you may have been closer than you imagined in your recent hunt.
But would
you really have wanted to take home that meteorite?

good hunting,
Ed
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Received on Wed 27 Jul 2011 02:36:48 AM PDT