[meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates

From: John Lutzon <jl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:08:54 -0400
Message-ID: <9FFB308C3BF844E7B13321B35F2C088B_at_Home>

Sterling,

Thank you, great site/info.
Ahhh, the good old days.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates


> John, List,
>
>> look at the Gulf of Mexico...
>
> Take a look at this website:
> http://www.scotese.com/
>
> Here the PaleoMap Project is archived. The maps show
> the configuration of the Earth's land masses in different
> eras. You're talking about 66 million years ago as if
> the layout of the continents was the same as it is now.
> But take a look the map at:
> http://www.scotese.com/K/t.htm
>
> At the time of the Chicxulub event, what there was of
> Central America ended at Yucatan and Chicxulub.
> Western America was a long peninsula from Canada
> down to Chicxulub. There was an ocean gulf separating
> Eastern and Western America. The North Atlantic had
> just started to separate from America; Europe was mostly
> underwater. There were no western American mountains
> at all, no Rockies, no Andes. North and South America
> had 1000 miles or more of open ocean between them as
> did Africa and the little pieces of Europe. North America
> was tilted and rotated from its present position.
>
> The shapes you're describing didn't exist then. There was
> no round shape there. In fact, there was no "there" there.
> If you save all paleomap images to disc and number them by
> age, you can flip through 600+ million years of the Earth's
> history like a flickering slide show, and watch the continents
> waltz like drunken mice.
>
> One thing, though. There's always been more water than
> land, and that means a giant ocean, a "Pacific." Giant oceans
> always have rift zones that generate and spread new crust,
> which is pushed away to either side. The west edge of the
> Americas is one chunk of crust after another drifting east
> and piling up on the earlier pieces, hundreds of "cratons"
> jammed up together.
>
> Central America has been built up that same way from Pacific
> blocks. The lands IN the Caribbean, the mountainous islands,
> have been pushed from "behind," right off Central America and
> into the Caribbean. Probably they will continue to move in
> the direction of their present movement and end up out in
> the western Atlantic!
>
> If there IS an Atlantic, that is. Since Chicxulub, the Atlantic
> has opened up, closed again, and opened up again. Western
> Scotland is a piece of New England that stuck to Europe the
> last time it opened, and parts of Georgia are pieces of North
> Africa that did the same (both about 200 million years ago)..
>
> In 150 million years, the western Atlantic will be gone and
> the "Mid-Atlantic" ridge will run along the coast of both the
> Americas, close than the rift zone that eges Japan today. In
> another 100 million years after that, the two Americas, Africa,
> Europe, and Asia will be welded together in one gigantic
> continental landmass like the Gondwanaland and Pangea
> of 250 million years ago.
>
> In half a billion years, a supercontinent can break apart and
> drift away in every direction until the pieces circle the globe
> and meet up on "the other side" to form a new supercontinent.
> (There's no reference frame, so "the other side" is a relative
> term.)
>
> Since we live less than a century, we think of the Earth as
> a stable, reliable, almost unchanging place, very secure,
> but if we lived for say, a billion years, Earth would appear
> to be a restless, chaotic, unstable, and quite unpredictable
> world, an utterly insane planet.
>
> I like it, though...
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com>
> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates
>
>
>>
>> Sterling,
>>
>> My ball-peen hammer and Schwinn are ready to go.
>>
>> On a serious note, i'm All for trying to figure out what's going on and
>> has gone "out there"--however, i also believe "we" should fund many more
>> studies to figure out what has already happened "here". For many years
>> people discarded the puzzle fit of S. America and Africa--well lo and
>> behold the Palisades + Europe. Now, just look at the gulf of Mexico--is
>> it possible that this was a major impact site and the Chicxulub impact
>> was secondary??.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com>
>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 11:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates
>>
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> You got one of those funny little hammers?
>>>
>>> We're running low on those hammers. All the monofuel
>>> Humvees are checked out for months in advance. However,
>>> there are five solar-powered inflatable-box RV's sitting
>>> in the shed having the dust cleaned off. They're available.
>>>
>>> They make about 250 klicks a day with their 30 square
>>> meters of panel. They follow the GPS Autotrails, and if
>>> you see anything interesting, you can stop and let it
>>> charge while you bike over and check it out. With those
>>> high fat knobbly tires, you can cover a lot of ground in
>>> 0.37 gee just by pedaling.
>>>
>>> If you decide to stay out past the 30-day mark of the RV's
>>> supply inventory, the flyers can drop you a Supply Ball,
>>> but you have to chase it down after it finishes bouncing!
>>>
>>> The RV's hold four, so bring a couple more geologists and
>>> a paleontologist. Maybe you'll find the first fossil.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds good, doesn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sterling K. Webb
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com>
>>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 9:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have next weekend open---Beam me up Sterling
>>>>
>>>> John
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>;
>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 10:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> EP,
>>>>>
>>>>>> All the theories in the world added together do not amount to one
>>>>>> fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> But since we do not have ANY facts about the impact
>>>>> rates on the Moon (or Mars or Titan or Ganymede or
>>>>> anywhere at all and only inferential data for our own
>>>>> home planet), the sum accumulation of facts is... ZERO.
>>>>>
>>>>> We ain't got one fact.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the contribution of reason / inference from
>>>>> known quantities amount to considerably more
>>>>> than zero.
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I not the the one who is always saying, about
>>>>> endless speculation about the geology of Mars or
>>>>> asteroids, that we will never know until we have
>>>>> "boots on the ground," 100 geologists on Mars-suits,
>>>>> carrying those funny little hammers, and scooting
>>>>> around in monofuel Humvees, living in solar tents?
>>>>>
>>>>> Until then...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sterling K. Webb
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 6:55 PM
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon/Earth impact rates
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sterling -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usually, you are spot on, but in this case...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, no one knows if the Earth sweeps stuff up for the Moon, or
>>>>>> the Moon pulls in more stuff that hits the Earth. NASA's garbage
>>>>>> estimates for ELEs are a perfect example of how bad their "modeled"
>>>>>> impact estimates are; NASA's estimated human ELE rates are even
>>>>>> worse - they appear to be off by two orders of magnitude.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Earth impact rates need to be determined from Earth data. Then a more
>>>>>> general model may be worked out, using accretion data from all bodies
>>>>>> in our solar system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All the theories in the world added together do not amount to one
>>>>>> fact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as the effects of hyper-velocity dust goes, I seem to recall
>>>>>> parts of Surveyor being examined after lunar surface exposure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> all the best,
>>>>>> E.P. Grondine
>>>>>> Man and Impact in the Americas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
Received on Mon 04 Jul 2011 10:08:54 AM PDT